MAA, you worked so hard; sadly, “B” never intended to open his mind, despite his boasting that he was “open-minded.” This whole exercise was the archetypal dance of the “Why don’t you, Yes, But…” psychological game of control. In its essence it is thus: Why don’t you persuade me; You haven’t persuaded me. Who does all the work? You do. Who has control? They do. You danced—hard—B wasn’t ever going to listen, not really. He just wanted to see you dance harder and harder. You fell for it; don’t feel too bad, they are masters of manipulation. The thing is, B will discover the truth one day—right at the moment he keels over from a heart attack or a stroke.
Haha, thank you, Suzanne, and I did realize I may have been overly optimistic about him doing the (admittedly substantial) homework he promised to dig into, but I do feel he was coming from a place of genuine curiosity rather than a malicious, close-minded one. Time will tell, but hopefully, the information I provided can be of use to others in the meantime.
I appreciate your note and your kind concern, Smirksinyourgeneraldirection, and I have had enough interactions with BK to vouch for his good intentions. I think it was a genuine misunderstanding that escalated due to the obfuscation that often occurs in online discussions. He was one of my first supporters and has been making his own efforts to wake people up for years now. Sometimes his humor doesn’t translate clearly and can lead to confusion with those who aren’t familiar with his idiosyncratic way of expressing himself :-)
At this point, I really cannot imagine any significant shift regarding this phase of the PSY-OP from either side. It’s fully a question of FAITH and TRUST. Moving forward, we shall see...it
One problem with our world is a lack of first principles thinking, and an embrace of utilitarianism. It is unequivocally NEVER okay to force a medical intervention on someone ever. We figured this out at Nuremberg. There. Fixed it. Which also means no more school vax mandates also, I think?
But maybe he will just once open up the Tess Laurie video....because anyone could see it and realize what was going on. That was a brilliant video to include.
I agree, Duchess. That is my new #1 recommendation as it demonstrates with irrefutable clarity the scientific fraud that has been intentionally committed, and you have the striking contrast between a heroic, courageous, and ethical individual of absolute integrity with someone who has clearly been pressured by BigPharma interests to compromise his conclusions—even when he knows it could cost hundreds of thousands of lives. I feel if I can get people to only watch that video, it will open up their hearts and minds to the truth. Getting them to even invest the 19 minutes to watch it is the challenge, though.
But let's be honest. Dude/dudette has four jabs and a disregulated immune system. If you did, would you want to know that you have a time bomb inside you. And that you did it for absolutely nothing? For nothing?
If all of these brilliant writings/essays and all of the videos, etc. that have been put out for people to learn the truth, I mean all of this including all the stuff we have kept ourselves, isn't put into a massive web site for people to see that CANNOT be taken down, I will explode. I am thinking of retiring, and either a website or book on these past two years, but particularly on the brilliant and courageous people who have spoken up despite being maligned, etc....would be a satisfying thing to do.
I want to call it "NEVER AGAIN". I might see if Gab would host it, as they own their own infrastructure and servers. The niformation is out there for people to see, the ethical issues have been clearly stated and cannot be denied....and the sleepwalking zombies that refuse to open their eyes are sleepwalking us right into hell.
It is mind blowing how people are capable of ignoring anything they don't like or want to see. I think this is one of the defning features of our human species..not our thumb, not our ability to write...but this.
Yes, I think that's what's important here: all the compiling you did will benefit others as they try to open eyes that are blind and ears that are deaf. You did an incredible job and THERE WILL BE FRUIT even if you don't see it personally. 😻😻😻
Ultimately, B was simply an intermediary who prompted me to create a document that could be useful for others, and if they are sharing it with loved ones they care about, it will be more effective if the exchange is made in good faith.
And thank you so much Margaret for creating the document covering all the relevant bases and links. It will be incredibly useful for the ongoing historical record.
My only regret is that you ended up saying you could be wrong. To my mind, that consideration of being “wrong” can only be reached after an exchange of evidence by *both* parties where the preponderance of one party’s evidence can be shown to be inaccurate. He presented *no* evidence that bolstered his refusal to believe the preponderance of YOUR evidence…which, as we know, is completely fact-based empirical evidence, which is NOT wrong. ♥️
Agreed. Androgynous pansexual B here never intended to be open minded and consider the veracity of the data and information. Nevertheless this is another useful information repository to direct people to who may actually be open minded. Many of us know people whose bullshark detectors are starting to buzz, finally, and might be receptive to being awakened from the psychosis.
I’m glad you found value in it regardless, Barney, and his attitude was so uncharacteristic of the antagonistic Covidians I’ve encountered, I felt it was worth a shot. I, too, am waiting for the dam to break as more and more people awaken from the psychosis so keep doing whatever I can to help prompt that awakening.
I appreciate your empathy, Frances :-) As I told Suzanne, I probably got a little too enthusiastic about a jabbee actually asking a question and seemingly wanting to engage in a sincere discussion. To his credit, he didn’t get scared away by my encyclopedic responses, so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.
My own take on the exchange was that, when you 'debate' with a quadruply-vaxxed person, there's a lot of personal investment to overcome.
Secondly, if B had truthfully read Kennedy's Fauci book and couldn't conclude, as you mention, that the author would be fighting court cases from now until the Second Coming if any of it were in the least unverifable.
So, I agree: B wanted to look 'open-minded' but confirmed that it was just a virtual exercise for his own benefit.
Maybe so. But I’m glad Margaret took the time to put together such a resourceful response which I intend to save. Let’s face it, at some point many who are among the middle 40% (vaxxed, obedient yet not clear why) will start to question this madness. We are already meeting the ones who have been injured or lost a loved one to the jab. Once they realize they have been lied to, what she wrote becomes a valuable tool to understanding without name calling or finger pointing. It’s those 40% whose turning will tip the balance in our favor. The monsters can only succeed if the majority of us comply with their disastrous plans for us. Without the support of the majority they are toast.
Of course we fight but failing to see the writing on the wall and imagining that anyone is listening to us screaming NO NO NO is horribly naive.
This is my 55th year of activism. The evil-doers enjoy our angst...... I have seen it a thousand times before. Protesting and petitioning is nowhere near enough - as I said before,, this world is totalitarian now. Can't you see it??
I do see it. Unfortunately in order to act we must remove our biggest belief, that one that says someone in a high place will somehow save us. But like yourself I have spent many years in this battle so it’s foolish and pointless to stop now. Plus the only thing that’s absolutely certain is our final departure. Until that day I won’t back down. BTW I just subscribed to your Subs. Was up late last night reading. Your work is remarkable.
Thank you for subscribing! I too do not expect anyone to save us.
The only thing I have absolute faith in is nature itself and, because of the mistaken direction of technology and science, I expect a tremendous and irreversible retribution to occur. I would even hazard the guess that nature has done this to 'civilisations' several times before.
LOL, yes, exactly. Thank you for the source; I should have provided it in my original comment. Reading through all the subsequent comments and MAA’s responses, I cannot help but be amazed at the wisdom and intelligence of so many here, starting with MAA. I appreciate reading through them all. And yes, B was game playing, but here is a truth worth mentioning: It’s not always the direct target that gets the message, but often the peripheral ones who get a message. So it’s worth the try. #Truth filters out in tiny droplets, I think.
Well that was an extraordinary compilation of information as only you, could do. I often feel after reading something from you that I wish I could compel others to read it as well. You're not just incredibly well informed, you're patient and kind. I will return to this piece, I'm sure, over and over again, for the links and as an example of how to exchange with the 'other side'. Just excellent. Thank you Margaret Anna. So glad I came across your work. Cheers.
Even though Mr. "Open"minded B came to the conversation without intention of truly opening his mind, you brought the proof that others can use when they have dialogue and debate with truly open-minded people.
Mr. B reminds me a tad of my son, or at least the position my son would take were we to actually have this conversation. Very early, within a couple of months, of the start of the faux pandemic it became painfully clear that he and his father and I were of opposite opinions and beliefs. I can't tell you how disappointed that made me; sad for him and his family and even feeling guilty wondering where we had gone wrong. He's a PHD, with a STEM degree no less, and there in I believe is truly the problem. He isn't a hard-leftist by any stretch, but he's certainly been brainwashed and bamboozled by too many years within the propaganda and indoctrination system of education.
We have maintained a good relationship in spite of this, but I can only hope he isn't so far gone that he isn't awakening little by little to the truth. I know both he and his wife have been vaccinated - not sure about the boosters because frankly I don't want to know - just as I don't want to know if they have made the terrible decision to vaccinate my two precious grandchildren. Writing the foregoing, I realize I may be judged as cowardly or a bad parent for not making every effort possible to change his mind instead of quietly, with a broken heart, accepting that he has the means, the ability and the brains to make up his own mind, and pressure from me won't change it. I've had the "temerity" to pass along information that I hoped might provide an intelligent, reasoned and factual position on this subject, but such has been met with silence. He may never see the light, but if he does my heart will rejoice in gladness.
HUMDEEDEE, I am so sorry you and your husband are having to watch your son and daughter-in-law make those heartrending decisions, and never in a million years would I consider you “cowardly or a bad parent”!
The fact that you have been able to maintain a loving relationship with them is impressive considering how many families have been splintered. Like all cults, Covidianism demands consummate faith in ridiculous beliefs, commitment to the inner group, and separation from “outsiders”—especially friends and family members, who have the potential to awaken them to their hypnosis.
Your gentle, heartfelt firmness in your own beliefs may ultimately end up being more persuasive than a barrage of evidence (a technique you can see has repeatedly failed me ;-)
I dearly hope he will see the light as I know what a tremendous burden that must be on you and your husband. If you do ever feel you have an opportunity to talk to him, simply telling him how you feel (like what you’ve expressed so beautifully here) may be more effective than any number of facts. I know that is what is advised in counseling situations and conflict resolution.
Thank you, dear, for your compassionate and encouraging response. Your comments always reflect so beautifully the gratitude and warmth you feel for your readers. I so admire, and have said so many times, your resolute efforts in exposing the truth about this terrible time in our history. You reside among a group of heroes and heroines and all of you deserve the gratitude and praise you widely receive. A thousand thanks for all you do. It can't be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.
Right apparently the lefties, no offense really, have decided that the gaps around and porosity of even improvised cloth masks will try just that much more genuinely to protect them since they swing left. [rolls eyes like Mr. Roper].
When I step back as I often do...this just shows how prone people are to accepting the framing of any debate or search.
It wasn't long ago, at all, that Kamala Harris and Andrew Cuomo were expressing skepticism of Trump's Vaccine. None of it makes sense, except that people respond to tribalism more than critical thinking.
What a brilliant piece Margaret. I will re-read it and absorb all the info. I wish I could donate but I lost my job, (Over 50 in Italy - aka Draghistan), and I am surviving on very little. But I follow your articles and I think you are inspiring. Let us hope, one day, that this utter madness will end. In the meantime, keep up the good work 👋👋👋
Thank you for your thoughtful note, Puffin, and please don’t feel badly! I am so sorry you lost your job and know many brave individuals like you who are suffering because they had the courage to refuse the injection. I appreciate your enthusiastic readership and hope your crisis will transform into opportunity soon. Here’s to ending the madness!
The case is simple - per CDC, the vaccines neither prevent infection nor stop transmission. That's the minimum expectation for alleged vaccines, if they don't do those things, they're either not vaccines in the first place, or they're defective for their stated purpose - they have no efficacy. And they have much higher risk than any other vaccine on the market for the past 50 years. So if B does any sort of risk-benefit analysis, the alleged vaccines fail straight off.
Actually, he looks like a concern troll, they're just out to get you to waste your time trying to convince them. However, the effort can be used to get you to get your thoughts together and make a concise and cogent presentation by which others may benefit.
Excellent way to boil it down to the essence, streamfortyseven!
“concern troll”—first time I’ve heard that term, and thanks for the heads-up!
Whether or not that’s the case (and I’m still hoping he’s legit), having the ability to share these exchanges with my readers makes these efforts worthwhile, as you’ve noted, and I am grateful others find the information valuable.
Echoing other commenters, I do not believe B was engaging from any sort of authentically open minded position. I think you could have homed in more on the tells in his first message. He includes some beliefs that are mere observations of fact, akin to “catches arrest the motion of balls” and two which are unprovable assertions on hypotheticals, akin to “Our Team won because of Y” and “If X, Our Team would have Y’d.” - “But I’m convinced that the imperfect vaccines are amazing and literally help save us from societal collapse. I’m over 50 and have taken all four shots as recommended... I thin[k] everyone should take the vaccine and if more of us had we might actually be out of the pandemic.”
And that’s where you can really stop everything. B, with these two assertions, is issuing himself permission to ignore any scale of devastation from the injections, especially among children and teens who have been subjected to this experimental product in an act of sacrifice for the sake of his own fears. I would guess that a year ago B was in the John Podhoretz, “just take it, they are perfectly safe” camp, had already successfully cajoled pre-adult family to take the shot before the Save the World podcast opened up debate on the safety issue, and has merely been digging his heels into the ground since then. He is a parasite washing his hands of blood. There’s no honesty here, only shame dressed as moral righteousness, pinned on a biological fantasy. You can confront this in live dialogue, especially attacking the fantasy about societal collapse, but in text format it’s a bit useless.
Great points, Brian, and perhaps I was overly naïve in thinking he would be open to reconsidering his positions simply because he asked. In any case, I never consider these exchanges to be solely about the overt recipient (like my Letters series), but they prompt me to gather resources, arguments, and evidence that can be of use to my readers, which makes the efforts worthwhile even if they fall on deaf ears.
At times, especially in dialogue, it is fruitful to reassess the meta. Pull the old Peterson / Lewis interview “You’re so boring, I can predict everything you think” line, haha.
B is motivated to believe. B has taken the time to get injected with four jabs.
Think about that. Think about the people who got, say, two jabs. And pulled out.
Now think about someone who keeps going.
Think about that. That's like the psychological phenomenon of hazing. That's why cults and fraternities and militaries use hazing. It bonds a person to the group. This is why people post pix of them with their Band-Aids self righteously proclaiming their "jabbed status".
Perhaps - but with both B and John Podhoretz I sometimes wonder if their terror actually strikes in both directions, and they haven't actually had a single shot - that's why they cling to the "if everyone else took it, the virus would go away" fantasy! And you don't need a license to practice to put a bandaid on your shoulder and photograph it, haha.
Also, it's entirely possible that "B" is an op, sent in to sow doubt. Sure.
I give MAA credit b/c she stays civil and kind, which is supposedly what Desmet says works. I doubt very seriously if link wars will ever work, but who knows. (It doesn't even work between recognized experts, hard for me to see how it's going to work between proxy laypeople)
This notion that there is a unique and magical approach to red pill people has been discussed for quite a while.
I realize that’s always a possibility, but it seems far more likely with someone like John or Jesse, who are like malaria-ridden mosquitoes time-sucking and hate-infesting whomever they decide to target. B was polite and certainly didn’t say anything that would cause me or others to genuinely doubt. And if you follow the link to the original comment thread I include in the intro, you’ll see he appears to be a real person with his own Substack on an entirely unrelated topic.
You really should do a post on the Tess Talks with David Charalambous (https://drtesslawrie.substack.com/p/tess-talks-with-david-charalambous). It blew my mind and made me realize I have been doing this all wrong as presenting piles of evidence only causes the indoctrinated to cling more firmly to their beliefs. David offers substantive tactics that can be used to circumvent the programming. I plan to watch his videos at Reaching People (https://reachingpeople.net) and want to do a post on the communication strategies when I have time.
That's funny - I never, ever bought into the herd immunity myth, and was only looking forward to society issuing itself permission to stop being in Pandemic™, Science Problem™, Look Out Scary Danger™. So I would have taken the shot if State mandates (CA for me) had been slapped together by April/May (and really it's still a question mark why that didn't happen). I mean, I'll snort random white specks on the back seat of an Uber if it's Saturday and someone has the audacity to dare me. But since I didn't consider it "rock n roll" to take the shot in advance of being required, nor to imagine any benefit from it, I never took it.
There is a difference between herd immunity as observed for respiratory and other viruses throughout history versus the gaslighting redefinition of “herd immunity” to include “vaccination”—ironic since it was the global mass vaccination with a non-sterilizing, leaky “vaccine” that not only thwarted natural herd immunity but may make it impossible to achieve as there aren’t enough unvaxxed people left to build it.
See this December 2020 article, which found evidence that natural herd immunity was on the verge of being achieved just before the rollout:
“The COVID-19 positive cases are increasing at an alarming rate across the world. On the contrary, the morbidity and mortality are showing decreasing trend as time progresses. The most intriguing part is the rise in asymptomatic Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Corona Virus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) positive cases in the population, which made us speculate some kind of gradual development of immunity in the population.… Thus, we hypothesized the existence of SAMPPs mediated the development of immunity against SARS-CoV-2 infection, which has caused an increase in the incidence rate of asymptomatic cases and a decrease in mortality rate.”
Ok, so, that paper is addressing reductions in symptoms but I don’t think suggesting sterilizing immunity. If it were the latter it would be proposing, what if, instead of by Mechanism X, but Mechanism Y, everyone already has sterilizing immunity? Except it is saying the result is asymptomatic cases. So more like the “we just stop paying attention” pandemic exit in which case the vaxx shouldn’t have been a negative.
In either event it doesn’t seem to acknowledge that a lot of drives CFR is rate of testing, and obviously couldn’t predict the simultaneous global emergence of the 2nd-gen B.1 variants (Alpha - Delta) which quite possibly were more intentional releases.
It was already my vague intuition that all past plagues and their resolutions were the product of either electing to observe or not observe trends in experienced symptoms. This, it turns out, is what Dissolving Illusions offers as an explanation for Polio’s “eradication.” That turns out to be a bit simplistic but is still the best rubric for defining when plagues “end” overall.
The hardest course I ever took was Quantitative Methods 101. Okay so I understood at last decision trees Monte carlo simulations, queuing theory, but didn't really appreciate what I had learned until I went back to school again, and had a LIBRARY professor teach me how to read scientific studies, and how to lie with statistics. I am forgetting most now, even have to look up the P value, but I would like all people to take both these courses...and of course they won't.
Why can't someone like Margaret Anna Alice or one of the other brilliant minds here on substack, outine a simple 11th grade level course (what is a p value, what is sample size, etc.) on how to read a scientific study CRITICALLY.
I swear there are a lot of people like B out there, but the one thing stopping them from looking at any further information is their inability to read and critically look at a few variables in any scientific study to see if it is crap or not. And lets not forget the conclusions that rarely match the data.
I absolutely suck at math. But I remember enough to follow a paper, and look at a few critical items and say "this is crap" or not. I'd do it myself but barely understood it at the time, let alone explain it to anyone else. Best I can do is follow along someone else's critique.
I agree that would be an incredibly valuable contribution—el gato malo would be the perfect candidate for putting together an accessible crash course on statistics (and how to lie with them)!
I pretty much go by some of the pointers you’ve discussed when assessing a study, but the first thing I usually do is look for a conflict of interest statement and the list of funders, as those details generally tell me instantly whether these are studies engineered to generate a press release vs. being conducted by ethical scientists without dubious motives.
IPAK-EDU has some courses on analytics if you want to check them out, too (this includes my affiliate code):
Thanks Margaret Anna Alice...I wish I had kept my notes from that course. I had to take basic statistics TWICE so I know how people either swallow them entirely or ignore them because they are difficult to understand....I love your suggestion I bet el gato malo would be great! Maybe I will ask him one day...and yes, always look for the conflicts of interest POINT ONE!! Excellent suggestion!
"B" is a typical CD indoctrinated fool. He never intended to follow your thought pattern. He was looking for "gotcha" moments. The only way these type *may* change their minds is if they get a serious reaction they can not dismiss as caused by their recent jab. The only light I see at the end of the tunnel is that these jabs are a part of the planetary drive to reduce population. And phools like "B" will be the first to go. Thinning the Herd is Nature's way to a better tomorrow.
You may be right about B, Greg, but he’s certainly the most civil believer I’ve encountered, so I figured I may as well assume good faith and produce some useful content while I was at it :-)
Unfortunately, this thinning of the herd is anything *but* natural. Monumental efforts are being taken to achieve it, and they’re only hoping they knock off enough suckers before the rest of the sheep wake up.
Someone with four jabs doesn't arrive at your Substack by accident.
B is worried. B should be worried.
And in fact, B may be fine. Most people who rode in Exploding Gas Tank Pintos didn't blow up.
And aaaaaaalllllllll that Trump/Trans/BLM/ stuff is an immediate indication that you are dealing with a person deeply immersed in some pattern recognition stuff gone wrong. All of those issues are peripheral to a central question: Are the exp. injections safe, and do they work?
Already this is a person that is having a hard time separating from a manufactured group think collection of issues, internalized.
This is a person that has been seduced on many levels.
I think B is is connected (or wants to be) to the old media. His counter "arguments" are exactly in the style of the old media - generalized conclusions stated as fact, substantiated by a few name drops as "proof" of an informed position. He did not link a single study to support his position or links from the people he named that were pertinent to make his case - he gave you nothing. He didn't even share how he came to his decision to take the boosters. But he unwittingly gave US something: the result of his pretending to be open minded resulted in a massive data dump all in one place that we can send off to people with or without open minds.
In addition to his sharing why he decided to inject himself with something that can't be un-injected, I would have been curious to know what his thoughts are on protecting us from speech that would result in vaccine hesitation.
As Alex Berenson pointed out on his lawsuit against Twitter, if you were a maker or actor in violent or pornographic films with posts that violate norms of human decency as well as age limits, Twitter would have no problem with such posts. It's only because of the pressure of governments and threats that they have bowed to that accounts are shut down on mere questions of vaccine efficacy.
Bret did a great interview with him where he goes over the incredible number of ways they rigged that trial and even after all that, the benefit of IVM fell just short of statistical significance.
Funny.. it's getting difficult to keep track of the sheer volume of evidence being ignored. We shouldn't really need more evidence but it just keeps on coming. And it still gets ignored.
I'm glad you were able to have this conversation. The many layers of narrative driven fear is just a lot to peel back. The other day I made a start on this in an in person conversation with a person I don't know well but who typically wears masks, and just said I wasn't sure the science behind masking holds up. The conversation went surprisingly well, and although I didn't press forward on all the other fronts I sensed that she is slowly coming around. I am trying to move slowly and nurture her first green shoots of reason. I get the sense that she wants off the train but it's not an easy leap.
She even said she thought they medical industry might be suppressing cures for things like cancer. I didn't dispute it but also didn't point out yes like for covid... I've learned to tread gingerly.
Unfortunately I was more direct with my family and that didn't work out well. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.
It drives me crazy how much damage this campaign has done but we all just have to move one day at a time I guess.
You’re so right about the avalanche of continually mounting evidence! The latest Pfizer batch of docs just dropped (https://phmpt.org/pfizers-documents), so there’s even more damning evidence to wade through now.
Good job on planting the seeds of doubt about the lies people have been told. Those kinds of conversations can really have an impact on the people who are ready to listen.
"Unfortunately I was more direct with my family and that didn't work out well. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes." Yes, this is a lesson many of us are learning, You have to tread cautiously as you did on the train to avoid barriers going up. It seems to me that humans have a cognitive defence against potential trauma which shuts down reason to maintain rational stability, the easy option. Planting seeds works from the inside, and hopefully, remains a pest until addressed.
I commented before I read to the end of your piece. I see you didn't really get very far with B after all.
The wall of links phenomenon is difficult to avoid because of the narrative layering and the Asch effect. To leave the narrative you have to believe 10 impossible things before breakfast.. you have to accept that the Media and authorities and academic establishment are all lying to you. How can they all be lying? Which means we feel we have to prove they are all lying.
People's BS detectors go off, and not without good reason since it does seem far fetched.
Eugyppius had a good article a while back where he suggests that you can't make a head on approach. Rather, point out the obvious falsehoods and gaslighting and ridicule it for good measure.
Things like the obvious failure of vaccines to prevent infection, which we all know they were supposed to do, but now the goal posts have changed. Similar with masks, they were known scientifically to be useless until they weren't. Cloth masks worked and now they don't. Anyway that's the approach I am trying, and capitalizing on any seeds of doubt that I observe and nurture them.
Kind of hard to do by email or thread though.. my only successes have been in person.
Hey that's another reason for masks and social distance.. what do you know!
I'm a little confused: B says he wants a conversation and a debate, yet when you give him facts to defend your position (which is what debating is, if I'm not mistaken), he just tosses it away and says that evidence is not what he is looking for. Sadly, I think he was a troll. Just because he framed his "question" in nice, polite language, does not mean that he meant what he said on the surface. You could not have given him any MORE facts to support your conclusions about the vaccine. You know how you know he's lying? Because at the end of the day, NO ONE can deny that not enough time has passed to prove vaccine safety. And in the vaccine world, they are prima facie dangerous until proven otherwise. And he couldn't even bring himself to say THAT.
I admire your willingness to see the good in a fellow human, even after two years into this psyop. I agree with those who believe that B was manipulating you, and never had any interest in learning about why those of us who are awake don't trust this spikeshot.
When this first started, I responded to people like B with mounds of research and information, only to get the same basic response that they "weren't interested" in hearing from expert X or reading an article from that publication, or watching a video made by Y, and that nothing I said could convince them as they had already seen or read enough. Many people like this are simply trolls and others are so propagandized that they simply can't see how irrational their refusal to look at evidence is.
I almost never engage with them at all now. If I decide to, I'll simply turn the question around onto them and ask *why* they trust a media that has a history of lying, a pharmaceutical industry with an appalling record of criminal convictions, politicians and bureaucrats who are deeply conflicted. People like B, whether he's sincere, disingenuous, willfully blind or simply a troll, have had more than two years to learn this information and have diligently chosen not to. It's not our job anymore (if it ever was) to enlighten them. The best we can do is demand that they look inside themselves and figure out why they are willing to go along with something that is so obviously fraudulent and purely evil.
He asked why you don't say that 'you may not be right', but that is taken as a given I know, we all tend to talk of what we know or suspect without always qualifying it with "I could be wrong." That just muddies the water. Also most of what you laid before him was information, data and studies from other people. If someone doesn't want to look at any data or facts then there is not much to do. I find it a bit unreal when someone has an opinion about something and when I state some known facts about the matter, they say, "well I don't really know much about it." How on earth can you have an opinion then.
MAA, you worked so hard; sadly, “B” never intended to open his mind, despite his boasting that he was “open-minded.” This whole exercise was the archetypal dance of the “Why don’t you, Yes, But…” psychological game of control. In its essence it is thus: Why don’t you persuade me; You haven’t persuaded me. Who does all the work? You do. Who has control? They do. You danced—hard—B wasn’t ever going to listen, not really. He just wanted to see you dance harder and harder. You fell for it; don’t feel too bad, they are masters of manipulation. The thing is, B will discover the truth one day—right at the moment he keels over from a heart attack or a stroke.
Haha, thank you, Suzanne, and I did realize I may have been overly optimistic about him doing the (admittedly substantial) homework he promised to dig into, but I do feel he was coming from a place of genuine curiosity rather than a malicious, close-minded one. Time will tell, but hopefully, the information I provided can be of use to others in the meantime.
If B was coming from a place of genuine curiosity, then B would have already been reading those links or similar links long before now.
I was discussing how I approached Dr. Jay and Marc Girardot with questions.
There is a difference between when one wants to see and understand and when one wants to "win" an argument.
Let's say that I were to question Tulsi Gabbard about WEF. To really figure out her mindset.
I wouldn't begin with: "HOW COULD YOU?"
I would recall that five years ago, nobody knew that the WEF was anything more than a rich people circle jerk.
So I would begin with that premise. Tell me what your impression was of the WEF then, Tulsi...
There is a distinct quality of a curious person, which is different than a person prosecuting a case.
I suspect that B already has a verdict in mind. don't you?
True on all counts, Sage.
And I will remember that strategy when it comes time to ask Tulsi that question!
I appreciate your note and your kind concern, Smirksinyourgeneraldirection, and I have had enough interactions with BK to vouch for his good intentions. I think it was a genuine misunderstanding that escalated due to the obfuscation that often occurs in online discussions. He was one of my first supporters and has been making his own efforts to wake people up for years now. Sometimes his humor doesn’t translate clearly and can lead to confusion with those who aren’t familiar with his idiosyncratic way of expressing himself :-)
At this point, I really cannot imagine any significant shift regarding this phase of the PSY-OP from either side. It’s fully a question of FAITH and TRUST. Moving forward, we shall see...it
One problem with our world is a lack of first principles thinking, and an embrace of utilitarianism. It is unequivocally NEVER okay to force a medical intervention on someone ever. We figured this out at Nuremberg. There. Fixed it. Which also means no more school vax mandates also, I think?
💯😆👍
But maybe he will just once open up the Tess Laurie video....because anyone could see it and realize what was going on. That was a brilliant video to include.
I agree, Duchess. That is my new #1 recommendation as it demonstrates with irrefutable clarity the scientific fraud that has been intentionally committed, and you have the striking contrast between a heroic, courageous, and ethical individual of absolute integrity with someone who has clearly been pressured by BigPharma interests to compromise his conclusions—even when he knows it could cost hundreds of thousands of lives. I feel if I can get people to only watch that video, it will open up their hearts and minds to the truth. Getting them to even invest the 19 minutes to watch it is the challenge, though.
I would have told him to go watch the Sen. Ron Johnson hearings, all of it, and then come back and tell me if they are all lying.
Or this one.
https://rumble.com/vqx3kb-the-pfizer-inoculations-do-more-harm-than-good.html
But let's be honest. Dude/dudette has four jabs and a disregulated immune system. If you did, would you want to know that you have a time bomb inside you. And that you did it for absolutely nothing? For nothing?
Yep, those are two of my top go-to’s, although I’ve started sharing the 13-minute teaser (https://thehighwire.com/videos/who-will-help-us) instead because expecting them to spend 3-1/2 hours watching what they probably think is a dry governmental proceeding when I can’t even get them to watch 60 seconds (https://rumble.com/v11qcta-unbelievable-blood-clots-video-from-embalmer-richard-hirschman.html) is a tall order.
OH...watching Del's video now. Thanks!
If all of these brilliant writings/essays and all of the videos, etc. that have been put out for people to learn the truth, I mean all of this including all the stuff we have kept ourselves, isn't put into a massive web site for people to see that CANNOT be taken down, I will explode. I am thinking of retiring, and either a website or book on these past two years, but particularly on the brilliant and courageous people who have spoken up despite being maligned, etc....would be a satisfying thing to do.
I want to call it "NEVER AGAIN". I might see if Gab would host it, as they own their own infrastructure and servers. The niformation is out there for people to see, the ethical issues have been clearly stated and cannot be denied....and the sleepwalking zombies that refuse to open their eyes are sleepwalking us right into hell.
Amazing how little traction Sen Johnson's hearings have gotten. From other members of Congress or nearly any media.
Including "independent" media such as Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi.
It is mind blowing how people are capable of ignoring anything they don't like or want to see. I think this is one of the defning features of our human species..not our thumb, not our ability to write...but this.
Oh just the one I was thinking of!! Sage that was great!!
Yes, I think that's what's important here: all the compiling you did will benefit others as they try to open eyes that are blind and ears that are deaf. You did an incredible job and THERE WILL BE FRUIT even if you don't see it personally. 😻😻😻
What an amazing exhaustive thread thank you MAA!!
Wasn't it epic?? I so agree with you. Its a keeper.
Haha, I have no problem humiliating Covidians and have a long history of doing so (e.g., https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/dispatches-from-the-new-normal-front-d2c and https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/behind-the-scenes-is-it-logical-and-7f2), but it would have been counterproductive to switch to offensive mode while the discussion remained civil.
Ultimately, B was simply an intermediary who prompted me to create a document that could be useful for others, and if they are sharing it with loved ones they care about, it will be more effective if the exchange is made in good faith.
And thank you so much Margaret for creating the document covering all the relevant bases and links. It will be incredibly useful for the ongoing historical record.
My only regret is that you ended up saying you could be wrong. To my mind, that consideration of being “wrong” can only be reached after an exchange of evidence by *both* parties where the preponderance of one party’s evidence can be shown to be inaccurate. He presented *no* evidence that bolstered his refusal to believe the preponderance of YOUR evidence…which, as we know, is completely fact-based empirical evidence, which is NOT wrong. ♥️
This is all very true. --- I, like a few others I know on substack, just wanted to throttle him/her/it.
Absolutely right, Stephen, on ALL counts. He was a complete troll hiding behind an “I am truly curious” veneer.
Yep, that all came out in the comment he made about browbeating her into admitting she could be wrong.
That was so lazy. Just looking for any sliver of a window to continue on with what he(?) wants to believe anyway.
Reminds me of that line in Dumb and Dumber: "so you're saying there's a chance! YESSSSSSS."
Agreed. Androgynous pansexual B here never intended to be open minded and consider the veracity of the data and information. Nevertheless this is another useful information repository to direct people to who may actually be open minded. Many of us know people whose bullshark detectors are starting to buzz, finally, and might be receptive to being awakened from the psychosis.
I’m glad you found value in it regardless, Barney, and his attitude was so uncharacteristic of the antagonistic Covidians I’ve encountered, I felt it was worth a shot. I, too, am waiting for the dam to break as more and more people awaken from the psychosis so keep doing whatever I can to help prompt that awakening.
Mr?
Point taken.
That is exactly how I saw this excruciating convo.
I appreciate your empathy, Frances :-) As I told Suzanne, I probably got a little too enthusiastic about a jabbee actually asking a question and seemingly wanting to engage in a sincere discussion. To his credit, he didn’t get scared away by my encyclopedic responses, so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.
Some of us see through the narrative AND the counter-narrative.
Some of us know that both sides of every war are founded/funded by the same globalists.
Some of us recognise agents using information gathering techniques.
Empathy, you say? Surely that is sarcasm!
I do not empathise with you or anyone in this fight.
You are being used and remain blind to it even after Suzanne made a good stab at alerting you to the game you fell into.
https://francesleader.substack.com/p/how-much-disinfo-can-you-swallow?s=w
Thanks for clarifying, Frances :-)
My own take on the exchange was that, when you 'debate' with a quadruply-vaxxed person, there's a lot of personal investment to overcome.
Secondly, if B had truthfully read Kennedy's Fauci book and couldn't conclude, as you mention, that the author would be fighting court cases from now until the Second Coming if any of it were in the least unverifable.
So, I agree: B wanted to look 'open-minded' but confirmed that it was just a virtual exercise for his own benefit.
Spot on, Suzanne.
Maybe so. But I’m glad Margaret took the time to put together such a resourceful response which I intend to save. Let’s face it, at some point many who are among the middle 40% (vaxxed, obedient yet not clear why) will start to question this madness. We are already meeting the ones who have been injured or lost a loved one to the jab. Once they realize they have been lied to, what she wrote becomes a valuable tool to understanding without name calling or finger pointing. It’s those 40% whose turning will tip the balance in our favor. The monsters can only succeed if the majority of us comply with their disastrous plans for us. Without the support of the majority they are toast.
You presume too much. Pro-vaxxers do not read our stuff and since when does the Big Club give a rats arse what we think?
The WHO will force governments to sign up to their global medical coup on 22nd May leading to enforcement of whatever nonsense they propose.
99% of the world's population could oppose but we won't get a vote and THAT is totalitarianism on steroids for the foreseeable future.
Frances I guess you could say I’m not a fatalist. Or maybe just someone who refuses to go down without a fight. Similar to James Raguski interviewed here. https://rumble.com/v13s6q1-single-world-government-ushered-in-by-who-covid-19-emergency-weaponized-to-.html
Of course we fight but failing to see the writing on the wall and imagining that anyone is listening to us screaming NO NO NO is horribly naive.
This is my 55th year of activism. The evil-doers enjoy our angst...... I have seen it a thousand times before. Protesting and petitioning is nowhere near enough - as I said before,, this world is totalitarian now. Can't you see it??
I do see it. Unfortunately in order to act we must remove our biggest belief, that one that says someone in a high place will somehow save us. But like yourself I have spent many years in this battle so it’s foolish and pointless to stop now. Plus the only thing that’s absolutely certain is our final departure. Until that day I won’t back down. BTW I just subscribed to your Subs. Was up late last night reading. Your work is remarkable.
Thank you for subscribing! I too do not expect anyone to save us.
The only thing I have absolute faith in is nature itself and, because of the mistaken direction of technology and science, I expect a tremendous and irreversible retribution to occur. I would even hazard the guess that nature has done this to 'civilisations' several times before.
Thanks for reminding me about “Games People Play,” Jon. That’s on my to-read list!
LOL, yes, exactly. Thank you for the source; I should have provided it in my original comment. Reading through all the subsequent comments and MAA’s responses, I cannot help but be amazed at the wisdom and intelligence of so many here, starting with MAA. I appreciate reading through them all. And yes, B was game playing, but here is a truth worth mentioning: It’s not always the direct target that gets the message, but often the peripheral ones who get a message. So it’s worth the try. #Truth filters out in tiny droplets, I think.
Perfect! I, too, am adding Berne’s book to my list.
Well that was an extraordinary compilation of information as only you, could do. I often feel after reading something from you that I wish I could compel others to read it as well. You're not just incredibly well informed, you're patient and kind. I will return to this piece, I'm sure, over and over again, for the links and as an example of how to exchange with the 'other side'. Just excellent. Thank you Margaret Anna. So glad I came across your work. Cheers.
Thank you, Kathleen, and I wish I could compel others to read these articles, too! Sadly, the ones who need to read them most don’t read … period.
Even though Mr. "Open"minded B came to the conversation without intention of truly opening his mind, you brought the proof that others can use when they have dialogue and debate with truly open-minded people.
Mr. B reminds me a tad of my son, or at least the position my son would take were we to actually have this conversation. Very early, within a couple of months, of the start of the faux pandemic it became painfully clear that he and his father and I were of opposite opinions and beliefs. I can't tell you how disappointed that made me; sad for him and his family and even feeling guilty wondering where we had gone wrong. He's a PHD, with a STEM degree no less, and there in I believe is truly the problem. He isn't a hard-leftist by any stretch, but he's certainly been brainwashed and bamboozled by too many years within the propaganda and indoctrination system of education.
We have maintained a good relationship in spite of this, but I can only hope he isn't so far gone that he isn't awakening little by little to the truth. I know both he and his wife have been vaccinated - not sure about the boosters because frankly I don't want to know - just as I don't want to know if they have made the terrible decision to vaccinate my two precious grandchildren. Writing the foregoing, I realize I may be judged as cowardly or a bad parent for not making every effort possible to change his mind instead of quietly, with a broken heart, accepting that he has the means, the ability and the brains to make up his own mind, and pressure from me won't change it. I've had the "temerity" to pass along information that I hoped might provide an intelligent, reasoned and factual position on this subject, but such has been met with silence. He may never see the light, but if he does my heart will rejoice in gladness.
HUMDEEDEE, I am so sorry you and your husband are having to watch your son and daughter-in-law make those heartrending decisions, and never in a million years would I consider you “cowardly or a bad parent”!
The fact that you have been able to maintain a loving relationship with them is impressive considering how many families have been splintered. Like all cults, Covidianism demands consummate faith in ridiculous beliefs, commitment to the inner group, and separation from “outsiders”—especially friends and family members, who have the potential to awaken them to their hypnosis.
Your gentle, heartfelt firmness in your own beliefs may ultimately end up being more persuasive than a barrage of evidence (a technique you can see has repeatedly failed me ;-)
I dearly hope he will see the light as I know what a tremendous burden that must be on you and your husband. If you do ever feel you have an opportunity to talk to him, simply telling him how you feel (like what you’ve expressed so beautifully here) may be more effective than any number of facts. I know that is what is advised in counseling situations and conflict resolution.
Thank you, dear, for your compassionate and encouraging response. Your comments always reflect so beautifully the gratitude and warmth you feel for your readers. I so admire, and have said so many times, your resolute efforts in exposing the truth about this terrible time in our history. You reside among a group of heroes and heroines and all of you deserve the gratitude and praise you widely receive. A thousand thanks for all you do. It can't be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.
Thank you, HUMDEEDEE! You’re like a grandma to me. Since all of my grandparents are gone, it means all the more to have you lovingly cheering me on 🤗
I remain baffled at the "leftist" angle on whether a substance is toxic or does what it says it will do.
I'm a lefty so this Pinto won't explode because...lefty science!
You’re far too rational to understand, Sage 😆
Right apparently the lefties, no offense really, have decided that the gaps around and porosity of even improvised cloth masks will try just that much more genuinely to protect them since they swing left. [rolls eyes like Mr. Roper].
😹
When I step back as I often do...this just shows how prone people are to accepting the framing of any debate or search.
It wasn't long ago, at all, that Kamala Harris and Andrew Cuomo were expressing skepticism of Trump's Vaccine. None of it makes sense, except that people respond to tribalism more than critical thinking.
💯
What a brilliant piece Margaret. I will re-read it and absorb all the info. I wish I could donate but I lost my job, (Over 50 in Italy - aka Draghistan), and I am surviving on very little. But I follow your articles and I think you are inspiring. Let us hope, one day, that this utter madness will end. In the meantime, keep up the good work 👋👋👋
Thank you for your thoughtful note, Puffin, and please don’t feel badly! I am so sorry you lost your job and know many brave individuals like you who are suffering because they had the courage to refuse the injection. I appreciate your enthusiastic readership and hope your crisis will transform into opportunity soon. Here’s to ending the madness!
The case is simple - per CDC, the vaccines neither prevent infection nor stop transmission. That's the minimum expectation for alleged vaccines, if they don't do those things, they're either not vaccines in the first place, or they're defective for their stated purpose - they have no efficacy. And they have much higher risk than any other vaccine on the market for the past 50 years. So if B does any sort of risk-benefit analysis, the alleged vaccines fail straight off.
Actually, he looks like a concern troll, they're just out to get you to waste your time trying to convince them. However, the effort can be used to get you to get your thoughts together and make a concise and cogent presentation by which others may benefit.
Excellent way to boil it down to the essence, streamfortyseven!
“concern troll”—first time I’ve heard that term, and thanks for the heads-up!
Whether or not that’s the case (and I’m still hoping he’s legit), having the ability to share these exchanges with my readers makes these efforts worthwhile, as you’ve noted, and I am grateful others find the information valuable.
And 3) the so-called vaccines do not reduce severity of illness in the elderly.
Echoing other commenters, I do not believe B was engaging from any sort of authentically open minded position. I think you could have homed in more on the tells in his first message. He includes some beliefs that are mere observations of fact, akin to “catches arrest the motion of balls” and two which are unprovable assertions on hypotheticals, akin to “Our Team won because of Y” and “If X, Our Team would have Y’d.” - “But I’m convinced that the imperfect vaccines are amazing and literally help save us from societal collapse. I’m over 50 and have taken all four shots as recommended... I thin[k] everyone should take the vaccine and if more of us had we might actually be out of the pandemic.”
And that’s where you can really stop everything. B, with these two assertions, is issuing himself permission to ignore any scale of devastation from the injections, especially among children and teens who have been subjected to this experimental product in an act of sacrifice for the sake of his own fears. I would guess that a year ago B was in the John Podhoretz, “just take it, they are perfectly safe” camp, had already successfully cajoled pre-adult family to take the shot before the Save the World podcast opened up debate on the safety issue, and has merely been digging his heels into the ground since then. He is a parasite washing his hands of blood. There’s no honesty here, only shame dressed as moral righteousness, pinned on a biological fantasy. You can confront this in live dialogue, especially attacking the fantasy about societal collapse, but in text format it’s a bit useless.
Great points, Brian, and perhaps I was overly naïve in thinking he would be open to reconsidering his positions simply because he asked. In any case, I never consider these exchanges to be solely about the overt recipient (like my Letters series), but they prompt me to gather resources, arguments, and evidence that can be of use to my readers, which makes the efforts worthwhile even if they fall on deaf ears.
What you created here is an invaluable resource for many of us, if not for B (a close-minded asshat). So thank you!
At times, especially in dialogue, it is fruitful to reassess the meta. Pull the old Peterson / Lewis interview “You’re so boring, I can predict everything you think” line, haha.
😆👍
B is motivated to believe. B has taken the time to get injected with four jabs.
Think about that. Think about the people who got, say, two jabs. And pulled out.
Now think about someone who keeps going.
Think about that. That's like the psychological phenomenon of hazing. That's why cults and fraternities and militaries use hazing. It bonds a person to the group. This is why people post pix of them with their Band-Aids self righteously proclaiming their "jabbed status".
💅🎩 (see if you can figure that one out given the limitations of emoji vocabulary :-)
Perhaps - but with both B and John Podhoretz I sometimes wonder if their terror actually strikes in both directions, and they haven't actually had a single shot - that's why they cling to the "if everyone else took it, the virus would go away" fantasy! And you don't need a license to practice to put a bandaid on your shoulder and photograph it, haha.
Also, it's entirely possible that "B" is an op, sent in to sow doubt. Sure.
I give MAA credit b/c she stays civil and kind, which is supposedly what Desmet says works. I doubt very seriously if link wars will ever work, but who knows. (It doesn't even work between recognized experts, hard for me to see how it's going to work between proxy laypeople)
This notion that there is a unique and magical approach to red pill people has been discussed for quite a while.
I realize that’s always a possibility, but it seems far more likely with someone like John or Jesse, who are like malaria-ridden mosquitoes time-sucking and hate-infesting whomever they decide to target. B was polite and certainly didn’t say anything that would cause me or others to genuinely doubt. And if you follow the link to the original comment thread I include in the intro, you’ll see he appears to be a real person with his own Substack on an entirely unrelated topic.
You really should do a post on the Tess Talks with David Charalambous (https://drtesslawrie.substack.com/p/tess-talks-with-david-charalambous). It blew my mind and made me realize I have been doing this all wrong as presenting piles of evidence only causes the indoctrinated to cling more firmly to their beliefs. David offers substantive tactics that can be used to circumvent the programming. I plan to watch his videos at Reaching People (https://reachingpeople.net) and want to do a post on the communication strategies when I have time.
That's funny - I never, ever bought into the herd immunity myth, and was only looking forward to society issuing itself permission to stop being in Pandemic™, Science Problem™, Look Out Scary Danger™. So I would have taken the shot if State mandates (CA for me) had been slapped together by April/May (and really it's still a question mark why that didn't happen). I mean, I'll snort random white specks on the back seat of an Uber if it's Saturday and someone has the audacity to dare me. But since I didn't consider it "rock n roll" to take the shot in advance of being required, nor to imagine any benefit from it, I never took it.
There is a difference between herd immunity as observed for respiratory and other viruses throughout history versus the gaslighting redefinition of “herd immunity” to include “vaccination”—ironic since it was the global mass vaccination with a non-sterilizing, leaky “vaccine” that not only thwarted natural herd immunity but may make it impossible to achieve as there aren’t enough unvaxxed people left to build it.
See this December 2020 article, which found evidence that natural herd immunity was on the verge of being achieved just before the rollout:
“The COVID-19 positive cases are increasing at an alarming rate across the world. On the contrary, the morbidity and mortality are showing decreasing trend as time progresses. The most intriguing part is the rise in asymptomatic Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Corona Virus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) positive cases in the population, which made us speculate some kind of gradual development of immunity in the population.… Thus, we hypothesized the existence of SAMPPs mediated the development of immunity against SARS-CoV-2 infection, which has caused an increase in the incidence rate of asymptomatic cases and a decrease in mortality rate.”
—“Is a COVID-19 Vaccine Developed by Nature Already at Work?”, “Medical Hypotheses”, Vol. 145, December 2020 (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33059225/)
Ok, so, that paper is addressing reductions in symptoms but I don’t think suggesting sterilizing immunity. If it were the latter it would be proposing, what if, instead of by Mechanism X, but Mechanism Y, everyone already has sterilizing immunity? Except it is saying the result is asymptomatic cases. So more like the “we just stop paying attention” pandemic exit in which case the vaxx shouldn’t have been a negative.
In either event it doesn’t seem to acknowledge that a lot of drives CFR is rate of testing, and obviously couldn’t predict the simultaneous global emergence of the 2nd-gen B.1 variants (Alpha - Delta) which quite possibly were more intentional releases.
Interesting find. I’ll give it a read!
It was already my vague intuition that all past plagues and their resolutions were the product of either electing to observe or not observe trends in experienced symptoms. This, it turns out, is what Dissolving Illusions offers as an explanation for Polio’s “eradication.” That turns out to be a bit simplistic but is still the best rubric for defining when plagues “end” overall.
*edit: pinned to wrong comment.
The hardest course I ever took was Quantitative Methods 101. Okay so I understood at last decision trees Monte carlo simulations, queuing theory, but didn't really appreciate what I had learned until I went back to school again, and had a LIBRARY professor teach me how to read scientific studies, and how to lie with statistics. I am forgetting most now, even have to look up the P value, but I would like all people to take both these courses...and of course they won't.
Why can't someone like Margaret Anna Alice or one of the other brilliant minds here on substack, outine a simple 11th grade level course (what is a p value, what is sample size, etc.) on how to read a scientific study CRITICALLY.
I swear there are a lot of people like B out there, but the one thing stopping them from looking at any further information is their inability to read and critically look at a few variables in any scientific study to see if it is crap or not. And lets not forget the conclusions that rarely match the data.
I absolutely suck at math. But I remember enough to follow a paper, and look at a few critical items and say "this is crap" or not. I'd do it myself but barely understood it at the time, let alone explain it to anyone else. Best I can do is follow along someone else's critique.
I agree that would be an incredibly valuable contribution—el gato malo would be the perfect candidate for putting together an accessible crash course on statistics (and how to lie with them)!
I pretty much go by some of the pointers you’ve discussed when assessing a study, but the first thing I usually do is look for a conflict of interest statement and the list of funders, as those details generally tell me instantly whether these are studies engineered to generate a press release vs. being conducted by ethical scientists without dubious motives.
IPAK-EDU has some courses on analytics if you want to check them out, too (this includes my affiliate code):
https://ipak-edu.org/course-listings/?afmc=3y
Thanks Margaret Anna Alice...I wish I had kept my notes from that course. I had to take basic statistics TWICE so I know how people either swallow them entirely or ignore them because they are difficult to understand....I love your suggestion I bet el gato malo would be great! Maybe I will ask him one day...and yes, always look for the conflicts of interest POINT ONE!! Excellent suggestion!
Oh and I forgot...this put out by the Canadian Covid Care Alliance was simply and brilliantly done...maybe send that to B? https://rumble.com/vqx3kb-the-pfizer-inoculations-do-more-harm-than-good.html
"B" is a typical CD indoctrinated fool. He never intended to follow your thought pattern. He was looking for "gotcha" moments. The only way these type *may* change their minds is if they get a serious reaction they can not dismiss as caused by their recent jab. The only light I see at the end of the tunnel is that these jabs are a part of the planetary drive to reduce population. And phools like "B" will be the first to go. Thinning the Herd is Nature's way to a better tomorrow.
You may be right about B, Greg, but he’s certainly the most civil believer I’ve encountered, so I figured I may as well assume good faith and produce some useful content while I was at it :-)
Unfortunately, this thinning of the herd is anything *but* natural. Monumental efforts are being taken to achieve it, and they’re only hoping they knock off enough suckers before the rest of the sheep wake up.
Thanks for the reply. However, do not underestimate the "Mind" of Nature. "All That Is" sees the Highest Perspective. Love your writings.
Someone with four jabs doesn't arrive at your Substack by accident.
B is worried. B should be worried.
And in fact, B may be fine. Most people who rode in Exploding Gas Tank Pintos didn't blow up.
And aaaaaaalllllllll that Trump/Trans/BLM/ stuff is an immediate indication that you are dealing with a person deeply immersed in some pattern recognition stuff gone wrong. All of those issues are peripheral to a central question: Are the exp. injections safe, and do they work?
Already this is a person that is having a hard time separating from a manufactured group think collection of issues, internalized.
This is a person that has been seduced on many levels.
You are an awfully smart cookie, Sage 🍪 (the guppy-flavored kind, of course 🐠)
BTW, I just recommended you in the Substack shoutout thread:
https://on.substack.com/p/shoutout-11/comment/6414383
I think B is is connected (or wants to be) to the old media. His counter "arguments" are exactly in the style of the old media - generalized conclusions stated as fact, substantiated by a few name drops as "proof" of an informed position. He did not link a single study to support his position or links from the people he named that were pertinent to make his case - he gave you nothing. He didn't even share how he came to his decision to take the boosters. But he unwittingly gave US something: the result of his pretending to be open minded resulted in a massive data dump all in one place that we can send off to people with or without open minds.
In addition to his sharing why he decided to inject himself with something that can't be un-injected, I would have been curious to know what his thoughts are on protecting us from speech that would result in vaccine hesitation.
Astutely observed, Kim, and I’m glad you found the data dump valuable, even if he didn’t!
Brilliant followup questions—I’ll try to remember those!
As Alex Berenson pointed out on his lawsuit against Twitter, if you were a maker or actor in violent or pornographic films with posts that violate norms of human decency as well as age limits, Twitter would have no problem with such posts. It's only because of the pressure of governments and threats that they have bowed to that accounts are shut down on mere questions of vaccine efficacy.
Well-put, Tom. The BigPharma influence is so glaring, only the desperately deluded can deny it.
Add to your ivermectin debate Alexandros Marinos.
https://doyourownresearch.substack.com/p/was-the-data-in-the-together-trial?s=r
Bret did a great interview with him where he goes over the incredible number of ways they rigged that trial and even after all that, the benefit of IVM fell just short of statistical significance.
Thank you for the rec, ForkInSocket, and I do indeed have Alexandros on my list and included him in the section on the TOGETHER trial!
Good to know about Bret’s interview—I hadn’t heard about that.
Funny.. it's getting difficult to keep track of the sheer volume of evidence being ignored. We shouldn't really need more evidence but it just keeps on coming. And it still gets ignored.
I'm glad you were able to have this conversation. The many layers of narrative driven fear is just a lot to peel back. The other day I made a start on this in an in person conversation with a person I don't know well but who typically wears masks, and just said I wasn't sure the science behind masking holds up. The conversation went surprisingly well, and although I didn't press forward on all the other fronts I sensed that she is slowly coming around. I am trying to move slowly and nurture her first green shoots of reason. I get the sense that she wants off the train but it's not an easy leap.
She even said she thought they medical industry might be suppressing cures for things like cancer. I didn't dispute it but also didn't point out yes like for covid... I've learned to tread gingerly.
Unfortunately I was more direct with my family and that didn't work out well. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.
It drives me crazy how much damage this campaign has done but we all just have to move one day at a time I guess.
You’re so right about the avalanche of continually mounting evidence! The latest Pfizer batch of docs just dropped (https://phmpt.org/pfizers-documents), so there’s even more damning evidence to wade through now.
Good job on planting the seeds of doubt about the lies people have been told. Those kinds of conversations can really have an impact on the people who are ready to listen.
I found the Tess Talks interview with David Charalambous (https://drtesslawrie.substack.com/p/tess-talks-with-david-charalambous) extraordinarily eye-opening regarding how to communicate with the indoctrinated and am hoping to write an article on those techniques once I get a chance to review David’s Reaching People resources (https://reachingpeople.net).
Thanks for that pointed to the Tess talk! Very helpful!
I wish I could make that required viewing for every human being on earth!
"Unfortunately I was more direct with my family and that didn't work out well. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes." Yes, this is a lesson many of us are learning, You have to tread cautiously as you did on the train to avoid barriers going up. It seems to me that humans have a cognitive defence against potential trauma which shuts down reason to maintain rational stability, the easy option. Planting seeds works from the inside, and hopefully, remains a pest until addressed.
I commented before I read to the end of your piece. I see you didn't really get very far with B after all.
The wall of links phenomenon is difficult to avoid because of the narrative layering and the Asch effect. To leave the narrative you have to believe 10 impossible things before breakfast.. you have to accept that the Media and authorities and academic establishment are all lying to you. How can they all be lying? Which means we feel we have to prove they are all lying.
People's BS detectors go off, and not without good reason since it does seem far fetched.
Eugyppius had a good article a while back where he suggests that you can't make a head on approach. Rather, point out the obvious falsehoods and gaslighting and ridicule it for good measure.
Things like the obvious failure of vaccines to prevent infection, which we all know they were supposed to do, but now the goal posts have changed. Similar with masks, they were known scientifically to be useless until they weren't. Cloth masks worked and now they don't. Anyway that's the approach I am trying, and capitalizing on any seeds of doubt that I observe and nurture them.
Kind of hard to do by email or thread though.. my only successes have been in person.
Hey that's another reason for masks and social distance.. what do you know!
I'm a little confused: B says he wants a conversation and a debate, yet when you give him facts to defend your position (which is what debating is, if I'm not mistaken), he just tosses it away and says that evidence is not what he is looking for. Sadly, I think he was a troll. Just because he framed his "question" in nice, polite language, does not mean that he meant what he said on the surface. You could not have given him any MORE facts to support your conclusions about the vaccine. You know how you know he's lying? Because at the end of the day, NO ONE can deny that not enough time has passed to prove vaccine safety. And in the vaccine world, they are prima facie dangerous until proven otherwise. And he couldn't even bring himself to say THAT.
Can I just applaud you on your PATIENCE. Holy cow, this is why I’m a commenter and not a writer. Smart, strong lady you are👏
I admire your willingness to see the good in a fellow human, even after two years into this psyop. I agree with those who believe that B was manipulating you, and never had any interest in learning about why those of us who are awake don't trust this spikeshot.
When this first started, I responded to people like B with mounds of research and information, only to get the same basic response that they "weren't interested" in hearing from expert X or reading an article from that publication, or watching a video made by Y, and that nothing I said could convince them as they had already seen or read enough. Many people like this are simply trolls and others are so propagandized that they simply can't see how irrational their refusal to look at evidence is.
I almost never engage with them at all now. If I decide to, I'll simply turn the question around onto them and ask *why* they trust a media that has a history of lying, a pharmaceutical industry with an appalling record of criminal convictions, politicians and bureaucrats who are deeply conflicted. People like B, whether he's sincere, disingenuous, willfully blind or simply a troll, have had more than two years to learn this information and have diligently chosen not to. It's not our job anymore (if it ever was) to enlighten them. The best we can do is demand that they look inside themselves and figure out why they are willing to go along with something that is so obviously fraudulent and purely evil.
He asked why you don't say that 'you may not be right', but that is taken as a given I know, we all tend to talk of what we know or suspect without always qualifying it with "I could be wrong." That just muddies the water. Also most of what you laid before him was information, data and studies from other people. If someone doesn't want to look at any data or facts then there is not much to do. I find it a bit unreal when someone has an opinion about something and when I state some known facts about the matter, they say, "well I don't really know much about it." How on earth can you have an opinion then.