Two years ago today, I had the pleasure of speaking with bestselling author Donald Jeffries on his I Protest podcast (also on Rumble). I always find interviews from past years to be fascinating time capsules. This is no exception, particularly since it took place in early 2024—before we knew Trump (or as Donald coined, Trumpenstein) would be resuming office a year later. That said, because I tend to focus on higher-level patterns in my analyses, interviews, and content, the information is ultimately evergreen and has as much value today as it did in 2024.
I first encountered Donald Jeffries’s Substack four years ago as I was composing my Letter to Governor Ron DeSantis. Donald had written a gut-wrenching account of his brother Ricky’s medical murder, which I shared as one of far-too-many examples of hospicide in my plea for DeSantis to “Veto HB 7021 to Protect Floridians from Incentivized Medical Malpractice & Hospicide” (he didn’t).
In a tragic bookend to his article about his brother, Donald just lost his beloved sister Janet and exceptionally special niece, Denise, within the space of four days. He wrote a heart-shattering tribute to them that left me sobbing, not only because it reignited my own grief but also because I feel honored to have witnessed these two bright, unique souls through such tenderly loving eyes after their candles flickered into darkness.
I hope revisiting our Apocaloptimistic conversation brings Donald some healing amidst his grief and equips you with empowering concepts, information, and resources for your tyranny-resisting toolkit. Please cherish your beloveds, dear readers, and tell them you love them while you still can.
“I Protest” with Donald Jeffries
February 9, 2024
Intro
Hidden History, Crimes and Cover-ups in American Politics: 1776–1963, and Survival of the Richest. Donald Jeffries separates the real from the unreal, fact from fiction, reverse-engineering our manufactured reality. And now from just outside the swamp-infested Washington, DC, this is “I Protest” with Donald Jeffries.
DJ:
Welcome to “I Protest.” This is Donald Jeffries here with you, just as the man says, from right outside the swamp-infested Washington, DC. We come to you every Friday at this time, 5 pm Eastern.
I have a really cool guest today, somebody I’ve been wanting to have on the show. And this really triggers my literary side. People have heard me say I’m primarily a novelist. That’s what I consider myself, but I’ve only had one novel published. I have nine nonfiction books now, so it’s proven to be much easier for that. But in my heart, I still have lots of short stories and stuff, poetry and all that. So I’m very much a literary creature.
Our guest today, Margaret Anna Alice, I discovered her through Substack. She held my hand somewhat through the process and helped me navigate the waters there. And she’s very successful there. You can see she looks the part of a writer—you can tell she’s a writer. I don’t know what the look of a writer is, but you’ve got it. And so I’m very pleased to have her here. We’re going to just talk about everything possible. She’s done lots of great stuff on free speech and COVID. Margaret, welcome to the show.
MAA:
Thank you, Don. It’s really lovely to be here.
DJ:
It’s great to have you. So I ask everybody this. My background—people listen to me and I’m an open book, so they know too much about me probably. But I’ve been awake since when nobody was awake. I was a teenager, I was awake, and I was working for Mark Lane as a volunteer for Citizens Committee of Inquiry with the JFK assassination. So I was awake then and telling everybody how corrupt everything was and the government’s covering up this and that. So all these decades later now, lots of people are awake.
How did you go to the process to where—because I could read your stuff and you definitely have some radical opinions as opposed to the mainstream—so were you a good girl at one point and then you went down the wayward path, or what happened?
MAA:
I’ve actually always been an anti-authoritarian. I think I was born that way. My father can attest to this. I actually only lived with him for a few years of my life, maybe between age six and nine, something like that. But I was incredibly resistant to his attempts to control me. I had a very good relationship with my mom because it was one of mutual respect, whereas he was trying to apply the Strict Father as opposed to the Nurturant Parent model that my mother used.
I did not—and do not—respond to people saying, “You need to do this just because I tell you to.” I have to understand the reason. I have to come to the conclusion on my own. It has to make sense to me. I don’t obey just because I’m told to obey. That’s pretty much how I’ve been all of my life.
I will say I did go through some ideological transformations where I was more—I considered myself a “progressive” at a certain point. I have a piece, it was for my two-year Stackiversary, where I talk about my core values, and those have always remained the same.
I’ve always been very strongly pro-freedom, anti-tyranny, pro-peace, anti-war, that sort of thing. And so what I discovered, though, was that the illusion that the Democrats and the progressives represented those values just fell away. And I realized it was all propaganda. This happened after the 2016 election. I actually did vote for Bernie Sanders. I’m very much a populist type of person because I love ordinary people and I’m anti-elite. That’s another reason I resonated so deeply with the Canadian trucker protest. I love seeing human beings coming together and resisting power.
I think it was 2017 when the Evergreen Spring happened with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying at Evergreen College. It was this quintessential example of how off the rails academia had gone, the social justice warrior Wokeism. A YouTuber named Benjamin Boyce was documenting the protests that were happening in Evergreen College by these SJWs. They were basically taking over the college. And it was really what started Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying’s career because they were both professors there and they were standing up to the “Day of Exclusion” [Absence] where whites were supposed to stay home as a way of honoring the minorities. Bret was exposing the racism of that, and he was under attack. Just watching that whole process unfold in real time and seeing the degree to which these people, the younger generations, have been ideologically indoctrinated, the scales fell away. Because I left the left, it didn’t mean I went to the right. I just abandoned partisanship altogether.
DJ:
We have a lot in common. I mean, you’re the girl of my dreams here. I was a card-carrying member of the ACLU back then and anti-war, prison reform, for instance. There’s things that the left used to stand for. Now, of course they stand for nothing, none of that. And isn’t it ironic that the left—I gravitated to their whole idea … back then, now the left hates the First Amendment. They had a so-called commie front back in the day called the First Amendment Committee. They were obsessed with the First Amendment, and yet they were claiming that was communist, the right was. Now they hate the First Amendment, and I don’t understand it. The ACLU says nothing about the January 6 prisoners. They’re not even concerned with that. And things have changed so much.
We were on the same trajectory, obviously. And the left, you’re right—I don’t think I’ve changed. I’m a populist, too. You’ve got to read my book Survival of the Richest. That’s where I think I singlehandedly restored the reputation of Huey Long, who is my all-time hero. I love Huey Long. People that listen to the show—so many people say, “I can’t believe you turned me on to Huey Long.” He was the real deal. He’s my all-time hero. I devoted a whole section of the book there to him. And that’s the kind of person I am. I’m a populist, and I can’t let go of the unfairness of wealth, the distribution of wealth. So that’s the left part of me. But on a lot of issues, I’m right-wing now just because I’ve been driven there.
You’re nowhere near old enough to have been a hippie, but you’re kind like a disillusioned hippie is what you seem like to me. You decided to do Substack, obviously, and it’s a great thing for all of us where we can vent and maybe make a little money and get an audience out there and everything. So tell us about that. What do you do at Substack? I noticed you had a three-part series, I think, where you’re talking about the bullies—and I have another book called Bullyocracy, too, where I wrote about bullying and the social hierarchy in schools.
I’m in accord with everything you say.… You said you’ve chafed at your father. I didn’t go that far, I don’t think. But doing that, you must be really out of your element now because we are living in such an authoritarian age, and they just want you to shut up, take your vaccines, “I don’t care if they don’t [work]. I’m taking my fifth booster, and I’ve had COVID eight times, but I don’t care. You have to do it.” So how do you get along now? Have you become, what’s your family situation like? Have you become the black sheep? I’m ostracized.
MAA:
My mother is very supportive, thank goodness. She’s one of my best friends in a way, so I’m very grateful for her support. My uncle. Going back to my father, I had a conversation with him two Thanksgivings ago, 2021, and I actually wrote about it in a piece called Letter to an Agree-to-Disagree Relative.
He was completely indoctrinated into the narrative and not just about COVID and the vaccines, but just “Trust the government, believe everything they say.” So anybody who questions them must be a flat-earth Holocaust denier. He half-jokingly called me, he said, “You’re the enemy.”
I was trying to have a reasonable discussion with him about risk-benefit ratio, clinical trials, things like that—just kind of out the window because I am a conspiracy theorist and everything I say is unsubstantiated crazytalk.
DJ:
Or conspiracy analyst. Gore Vidal said, “I’m a conspiracy analyst.” And there’s lots of conspiracies to analyze. We have a new thing almost every day.
What did you think of Tucker Carlson’s conversation with Vladimir? I got to tell you, if they’re translating Vladimir Putin correctly, he sounds better than most of our politicians.
MAA:
I haven’t actually had a chance to watch it or read any of the transcripts yet. I’ve just heard about it in the ether so far. But I had an interview with Croatian Weekly, and we got a little bit into Putin in that piece.
One of the things I found when I read his speeches is he is very cognizant of Wokeism and the infestation of ideology into America and how it is being used to manipulate the populace. Even though I can’t of course condone his dictatorial type of behavior, I do appreciate that he is much more aware of what’s going on and seems to be in a way more of a free speech advocate certainly.
DJ:
He supposedly banned all GMO products from there. I don’t know if that’s true or not. I think he’s gone on record saying, “Your government killed Kennedy.” I don’t know. So what would you say? Just looking at, it seemed to me like there were two themes. I’m all over the place. If you read my Substack, sometimes I’ll talk about personal stuff and I try to address the news if I can, but it comes and goes, the news—we’re always on the brink of World War III. At first, it was the Ukraine, then it was Israel, and now it might be Iran. We’re always almost on the brink of World War III. I don’t know if this is just a show or what to keep us in fear porn without COVID, but looks like COVID. So I get the idea that that probably radicalized you more. I mean, I call COVID the greatest psyop in the history of the world. What are your thoughts on that?
MAA:
Yeah, absolutely. I think because I had already begun awakening to the propaganda and the media manipulation—I had Trump Derangement Syndrome, I admit it, in 2016. Once I realized how many lies have been told and how I had been deceived—and I’m certainly by no means pro-Trump, and I’m very critical of him for his role in Operation Warp Speed—but I realized Trump Derangement Syndrome was being used to control people like me and people on the left. Initially, when Trump was in charge of “developing” the vaccine, the people on the left were saying, “Oh, I’m not going to take that. It hasn’t been sufficiently tested. Trump’s involved.” Soon as it switches over to Biden, “Everything’s great. It’s wonderful. It’s the salvation.” It was just so clearly an ideological switch and very religious, very cultlike.
From the beginning of the COVID psyop, it was very clear to me that this was a propaganda fear campaign. People who you could normally engage with and discuss differing viewpoints with just went absolutely batshit crazy when you tried to express or share opposing evidence and show this information you’re being fed is basically a lie or a deception. Death tallies are being drastically inflated, and the PCR tests are giving us a ridiculously disproportionate count of cases, and they’re just pumping that out on a second-by-second basis on the news and every conceivable media outlet in order to immerse you in this state of fear so you will bow down to whatever protocols they demand you accept and whatever rights you allow them to take from you.
DJ:
Absolutely. My book Masking the Truth: How Covid-19 Destroyed Civil Liberties and Shut Down the World, that’s the most shadow-banned book in the world. Barnes & Noble just recently removed it from their website, and they won’t even respond to why. Amazon has blocked—so many people told me they reviewed it, and they won’t put it up there. The libraries, they blocked it from libraries for a long time, you couldn’t find it, even the Library of Congress. A few—thanks to supporters who have been bombarding the libraries. We’re going to have to take this show down right afterwards because I can talk about the most controversial stuff you want, but that’s one topic YouTube won’t allow. As soon as they hear it, boom, I’ve got a strike against me. Most of the people end up watching this live on YouTube, so we have a better chat there.…
Obviously, you didn’t get vaccinated or anything, but did this cause—because this was an emotional issue, all the other issues, in my case, JFK, 9/11, all the other elections, whatever, but this was really emotional, and that’s why I call it the greatest psyop. This broke—my kids and I were the only ones in the family that didn’t get vaccinated, so we were banned from my niece’s wedding. I might never see them again. We weren’t going to get vaccinated to go there. We wanted to go, but sorry, I’m not going to do that. That kind of stuff where it ostracizes and it fractures families. Did you experience any of that? If people said, well, she’s been out there, but this is beyond the pale, we can’t talk anymore. Have you had that kind of stuff? You sound like your father did, but anybody else?
MAA:
Yeah, to a certain extent. And I should say my father has come around a little bit more in that last fall when I talked to him, I asked if he was going to get the booster, and he said, “I don’t know, probably not.” So I think he’s starting to see through the ruse, even though he still trusts the government and the media for the most part. But my experience has been, when I have spoken with—it’s kind of been a split. Some friends, when I told them, when I confessed that I’m a dissident writer, it was just so exhilarating because they were on the exact same page and they saw through the propaganda, but they didn’t feel comfortable speaking out about it, and seeing what I was doing was just, they were very inspired by it. That’s always just so exhilarating when you find someone who sees through the propaganda with you. It’s like the Asch Conformity Test. Somebody sees the real length of the line instead of seeing the long line as short because they’re being told to and everybody else sees it that way, supposedly.
DJ:
You have a nice following on Substack. I hope to be able to get into your stratosphere there. I’m growing, but you’ve got a real good thing going there. I hear from people all the time, so I know you must, I find, like for instance, Masking the Truth. There’s not one person I know in real life that they wouldn’t even acknowledge that book, let alone read it. And that pretty much goes from most of my books. They don’t acknowledge that it’s even happening. But I hear from strangers all the time or people I meet online. I consider these people my friends. I imagine that’s the way you—and this is kind of a cyberworld where our supporters are people we don’t know all over the world.
MAA:
Exactly. And honestly, one of the hardest, or the thing that hurts the most is to share something that I’ve done or that’s really meaningful to me with someone I consider one of my best friends or some really close friends, and they are so trapped in the narrative that they can’t even see beyond it. The cognitive dissonance is really painful for them.
For example, I had a friend visit, actually during that same Thanksgiving in 2021, and I shared—I’ve written a fairy tale, a dystopian fairy tale, about what’s going on—I shared it with her, and she read it while I was making tea.
And she was, her affect was just stunned, really. To her credit, she talked to me, she let me talk mostly for about forty-five minutes, and then at a certain point, she just said, “This is making me uncomfortable. Can we change the subject?” I was basically just asking her question after question, “Why this? Why that? Why are they doing it this way?” None of it was logical. None of it was following conventional health guidelines. Just pointing out the propaganda, pointing out the puppet strings. And it was just too painful for her because she had just gotten her five-year-old injected the week before, and she was lined up for her booster. Everyone she knows and loves has gotten injected, and she’s completely immersed in everyone completely believing the narrative. So for her to see someone she knows and loves and trusts have a completely different perspective, it really was too much for her to bear. I tried to share some resources with her afterwards, and she never really responded. She was quiet for a while, and I said, “Are you still talking to me?” I texted her, and she said, “Yes, we’re forever friends. I just haven’t had a chance to review the materials.” But that was two-and-a-half years ago, and she’s still, as far as I know, not there.
Meredith Miller, I’ve been doing a Dissident Dialogue with her—you should have her on your show. She’s incredibly brilliant. She’s a holistic coach, but she really understands the psychology of Stockholm syndrome and what she calls a psychoneurospiritual state of captivity.
I’ve learned from her that really there’s nothing we can do to force someone to wake up. We can plant the seeds, we can make the information available, but it’s something they have to come to internally to be willing to open their eyes. Otherwise, if we try to force them, they’re just going to resist more.
DJ:
Yeah, there’s normalcy bias. I know in my family, they were used to hearing me rant and rave at parties and stuff for a long time. That’s all I did. It’s just I’m doing it now, people are actually listening, and I am writing, and people are actually reading. Maybe they can’t handle that or something because they’ve heard all this before. Anybody that knows me, it would’ve been predictable to know how I would react to—I mean, I think they would’ve been shocked if I had gotten vaccinated if I believed, because from the very instant, and that’s my book, Masking the Truth. And I noticed you interviewed my friend Naomi Wolf. Naomi Wolf wrote the foreword to my book, Survival of the Richest.
She’s really blown up in this world, ironically, because when we first talked, I was this conspiracy theorist, and she’s—I still don’t know why she was canceled by the left. I don’t really understand it, but I wrote a piece called In Defense of Naomi Wolf years ago when she was sandbagged by that BBC reporter when she wrote a really Woke book. It was about defending the homosexuals that were in prison in the 1800s. I don’t know how that got her in trouble with left, but somehow it did. And they took—one of the things, she misunderstood a term that I would’ve misunderstood the same way, and her editors didn’t catch it, and her editors at Random House or wherever it was, they threw her right under the bus—didn’t stand for it. So it was terrible. And so I wrote the piece. I thought it was unfair, and it was on Lew Rockwell. I see you on Lew Rockwell, too.
MAA:
I love Lew.
DJ:
So because of that, we talk, but still, I think she realized this guy’s completely different—the JFK guy, 9/11. She was a pretty mainstream liberal. She was reviewed in the New York Times and all that stuff that I would never be, but now she’s kind of in our world, which is amazing. So it’s nice that you talk to her. I should have her back on the show. I haven’t talked to her for a while.
MAA:
Yeah, I’m sure she’d love to discuss her new book.
DJ:
Yeah. But the difference with her book—I went to her book launch party here at the Willard Hotel in DC. She invited me to that, I guess last year, a year or two ago. But that’s why I met Peter McCullough because he was there, and Peter Navarro was there, and I had them on my show later, too. So it was really cool to be invited to that.…
When I wrote Masking the Truth, though, her book and Peter McCullough’s book, RFK Jr’s book on Fauci, what’s the guy, Alex Berenson, you know who, Tucker Carlson? But all those people, I think they start pretty much at Point C or something. They start with the vaccine, and they assume there was something there. My book is the only one I know of where I start at Point A, and I talk about what was in China. I don’t believe in the lab leak theory. What was in China, what was going on? Why was a woman walking around spitting on doorknobs supposedly? People weren’t dropping dead in the streets. All the fear porn we heard out there. And then Italy, the same kind of thing. You had the fake photo, the coffins coming out, that was from another part of the world.
Then I talk about the empty hospitals, I talk about the dancing nurses, who are back, by the way, the dancing nurses are back and shockingly enough, they’re not dancing for 9/11 truth or free speech or to stop war. They’re dancing for climate change. How about that? Isn’t that so? I dunno, but so that’s the difference from mine. I don’t know if you doubt COVID itself, too, as I do, or not. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
MAA:
From the beginning, I have actually focused on the propaganda aspect of this because to me, this is completely artificial from top to bottom. Whether or not there is a specific SARS-CoV-2 virus or if it’s just a variation on flu or whatever, that almost is irrelevant to me because with a 99.7-percent survival rate for the majority of the population, it effectively is just another flu, common cold with some extra symptoms thrown in. And so I’ve never really wasted time on the lab origin theory or arguing about that because my overriding focus is to stop totalitarianism and democide. And those academic arguments do nothing to prevent totalitarianism from advancing. Other people, I don’t really care what their opinion is on it or not, as long as they’re pro-freedom, anti-tyranny and want to join me in stopping the lethal injections, I’ll join hands with them. I’m very much in alignment on many issues with Mike Yeadon and Denis Rancourt, and they do not believe there was an actual specific SARS-CoV-2 virus. Denis’s research—I don’t know if you have looked into his excess mortality data.
DJ:
No, but I’m very familiar with Mike Yeadon, and I don’t know how to contact him. I’d love to have him on the show. I mentioned him many times in my book.
MAA:
Yeah, Mike is wonderful. He’s been very limited in the number of his podcasts that he’s been doing. He may be open to it; I can see for you. But anyway, Denis Rancourt has done this groundbreaking, all-cause mortality and excess mortality research. This is really something he is deeply familiar with as a researcher and has been doing this for years. You can use the mortality data, which is completely objective. All countries have to report this. It doesn’t say, “This was a COVID death,” or anything like that. It’s completely disassociated from the causes of death, which we know were massively manipulated in terms of the death reporting. So going with the excess mortality data is the most objective way to analyze how many people have actually just simply died and then how many above and beyond the expected level there were. Specifically, he and his team have looked at how many people have died in direct relation to the rollout of the vaccine, the booster. And it’s just absolutely amazing that you see this spike in deaths in all these different countries right after the rollout. And so he is able to very convincingly tie approximately 17 million deaths to the injection.
DJ:
Earlier, somebody in the chat room called you a cutie, by the way. I dunno if you missed that. I put it up on the screen.
MAA:
I’m not seeing any of the chats.
DJ:
So you got that going for you. But Hughston asked you, “Curious about her thoughts on directed energy.” I have a lot of people that talk about directed energy.
MAA:
Yeah, that’s not something I have specifically researched. It absolutely would not surprise me if governments are using that to manipulate weather to cause “natural disasters.”
DJ:
Hawaii.
MAA:
Yeah, there’s so much suspicious around Maui. Very likely that was involved, but not having researched or written about it—I don’t tend to speak about things with confidence unless I have really, I dive very deeply into pretty much everything I write about. Anyone who has read my essays at Substack will see almost every word is hyperlinked to supporting evidence. Because I’m not just writing off the top of my head and saying, “Take my word for it. This is my opinion, and this is what you should believe.” I’m saying, “These are the conclusions I’ve done. I’m showing my homework, and you can take a look at some of the resources I’ve used to help inform that decision and decide for yourself.”
DJ:
You do a great job. I’ve put a few pictures up, and I need to put more graphics and stuff. You do a good job of that, and it makes it look better.
I’ve gotta ask you, because your logo or whatever is Alice, Alice in Wonderland, and I looked at your favorite authors. We have a lot of them in common, and I love Lewis Carroll, Charles Dodson, and I am fascinated by his life. I think that’s just an incredible work. It was written in 1850s or whatever, and it’s still very applicable today. It’s not aged at all because he was in an imaginary world. But do you think things are getting curiouser and curiouser? Because we’re at the stage now—I compare it all the time with the trials of Trump, and people mistake me all the time. I call him Trumpenstein, and you need to read my Trumpenstein Project. I think he’s a creation to divide the country. And that’s why I think everybody hates him. I’m a Trump agnostic. We’re the smallest minority group in the world.
MAA:
Yeah, I think we’re on the same page. I called him an unwitting Goldstein in Letter to a Scientifically-Minded Friend.
DJ:
Yes! I’ve called him that, too. He’s Emmanuel Goldstein. That’s what he is. Except for the Two Minutes Hate, we have the 24/7 hate, but the prosecutions that they’re subjecting this guy to—and again, I don’t think anything’s going to happen to him. I think he’s an actor, but symbolically, what it represents to us—but we’re at the stage where, was it the Red Queen or whoever it was in the courtroom in Alice in Wonderland where they said, “Sentence first, verdict afterwards.” Are we at that stage?
MAA:
Oh, yeah!
DJ:
We’re there. I think.
MAA:
Yeah. Considering how many of the courts are bought and the judges are owned and they’re just voting or arbitrating based on ideological lines. Soros has really dedicated himself to reforming the justice system by getting so many prosecutors on his payroll and funding their campaigns. We have so much corruption in the justice system, and we certainly have gone beyond Wonderland in terms of Clown World and things being completely upside-down and people’s perceptions not matching reality.
DJ:
Have you written books, or do you write fiction? Do you write, I just look at what your reading list was, and I imagine you must’ve at least tried fiction. Have you been published other than Substack?
MAA:
Yeah, I mentioned earlier my dystopian fairytale. That’s The Vapor, the Hot Hat, and the Witches’ Potion. That was just something that poured out, and I published it at my Substack, and it got a very strong response. I think it’s because I was framing what was happening and what is going to happen if we don’t stop it in a fictional setting. And so it was much easier for people to see the emperor has no clothes, going back to fairy tales throughout history. They are used to reveal the truth in very accessible ways. I had people tell me they were able to share that with people in their family who would not read a nonfiction article about COVID, but they were open to reading and listening to that. And so I just self-published a book of that using illustrations from the—I have these stock illustrators I typically use, and I just found when I was working on the story, when I went to look for the illustrations, it was like they were made for the story. It all came together very quickly. I haven’t done very much in terms of marketing it. I haven’t looked into distribution. I just put it up on Amazon. A number of people have bought it and appreciated it. Some people buy it directly, and I can do signed copies if people are interested in that.
My essays have appeared in several collections, my essays and poetry. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Canary in a Covid World, but that’s a collection of thirty-four essays by what they call “thought leaders.”
DJ:
A nice title.
MAA:
The first essay I wrote, which is A Primer for the Propagandized: Fear Is the Mind-Killer, appears in that collection.
It’s a really wonderful group of dissident writers, scientists, doctors, journalists, so I feel proud to be associated with them and with that book.
I don’t know if you know Dr. David Cartland, but he put a poetry collection together called A Doctor’s Despair, and he has several of my poems in there, including what I’m most known for, which is Mistakes Were NOT Made.
A Doctor’s Despair (Paperback)
In the introduction, he said that poem actually helped inspire him to put this collection together, so that was really nice to see. And these are just doctors; some are professional writers and poets, and others are just regular people expressing their observations about COVID and the emotional pain they’ve gone through and the censorship—all the things dissidents have suffered during these past four years, and they’re putting that in poetry. I have three poems in that piece.
I do plan to put my essays together in one or more books and have been in communication with pretty much the only publisher I would consider working with there, too. I really like the senior editor, the one I’ve been in communication with for a long time, and she’s been just incredibly patient with me. I’m always so busy writing new content that it’s hard for me to go back and put together my old content in an organized way. It really shouldn’t take that much time. One of my goals for this year, my New Year’s goal, my only one, is to get my book together and hopefully work with this publisher because I do really like them, and they’re ethical and they publish books that I respect.
DJ:
Obviously, you have a literary bent. Do you mind me asking what the publisher is that you trust?
MAA:
DJ:
That’s Naomi’s new publisher. Naomi had to go there. So she likes her, I guess. But yeah, that’s cool. I haven’t tried them. I have these two novels that I think are the best thing I’ve written, and they’re just sitting there, and I can’t get anybody to read them. I have an agent that’s a friend of mine and calls me fascinating all the time but apparently not fascinating enough for her to read my work. And so I said, “I can’t be that fascinating if you won’t read my work.” So yeah, I’m looking for something like that. I’ll have to talk to you about that later.
When you became—obviously with COVID, you became even more radicalized like I did, as if that’s such a thing is even possible. I dunno how that’s possible, but like I said, if they do institute the Chinese social credit score, I’d like to see anybody that’s going to have a lower score than me, but maybe there will, I don’t know. But I think it’s going to be hard to beat. But were you able to exist in the working world? Are you still existing in the working world, or are you kind of just you’re doing your own thing?
MAA:
Yeah, I’m very fortunate in that my husband and I have our own freelance business in that we do website development, writing, editing, graphic design, things like that. We were independent of the system, so we didn’t have a lot of the same pressures that people who are employed have. I was really grateful that I had escaped that about a decade before. Now, I pretty much do this, my Substack work, 99 percent of the time, so I don’t really do very much client work anymore at all. When I’ve found my purpose and I want to spend every single waking second writing and working to defeat tyranny and stop democide, it’s really hard work on things that seem more trivial by comparison, even though financially, we’ve definitely taken a hit from doing this transition from client work to my Substack work, but it’s absolutely worth it.
DJ:
Hey, you have to, because if you put yourself out there like we do where thousands of people read it, I’ve made myself unemployable. And you have, too, I’m sure. And that’s the point is that everybody’s going to look. It’s not just one post or something. This is everything you’ve written for—in my case, I have books, too. So I have all this stuff and podcasts for years, and so it would be impossible for me to do anything else. So that’s why I’m hoping, and I tell you guys out there, and certainly I’m going to want you to give your Substack address out, too, but please, if you want to support me, it’s the only place I’m not shadow-banned: donaldjeffries.substack.com. “I Protest,” just like the show. And what’s your Substack?
MAA:
MargaretAnnaAlice.com will take you there.
DJ:
We have to support dissident voices, and you have to support each other. A lot of times that doesn’t happen. There’s a lot of competition. I dunno how deep you are in the conspiracy—the JFK, 911, Oklahoma City, I mean, all these things I’m familiar with, the UFOs, all that stuff. I don’t know if you’ve experienced any of that or if you’re just in your own former-progressive-turned-civil–libertarian.
MAA:
In a way, I’ve actually always been skeptical of official narratives. I was just thinking back recently, it was funny because I’d forgotten about this, but I think it was in tenth grade, I did a book report on The Unseen Hand. I don’t know if you know that book, but it’s going into conspiracy theories that I don’t even remember, like things about Teapot Dome scandal, which I don’t remember what that is anymore.
DJ:
Nobody talks about that. It’s with the Harding administration. It did knock Harding off, though. That probably is why somebody did.
MAA:
I did this incredibly thorough report on it and got an A+ on it. But I, just thinking back, I thought if anybody had done that these days, a student writing about these conspiracy theories, they would’ve been vilified, ostracized. I found it interesting, I wrote about it, and moved on. I’ve always been—anybody who’s paid any attention to the JFK assassination, you’ve gotta be kidding if you believe the official narrative. Bill Hicks, I’m a big fan of Bill Hicks. He, of course, was very passionate about the JFK assassination.
DJ:
So do you think he became Alex Jones? That’s the conspiracy theory.
MAA:
I don’t believe that one! No.
DJ:
Of course, I don’t. You get lots of great things. You have, what’s the one, Barbara Bush, her real father was Aleister Crowley. That’s another good one. And if you look at these, it’s like, okay, I don’t know, maybe. And of course, there’s a whole substrata that I run into all the time now where these people—my son’s the only one in my family that is in my world. He’s the only one … who listens to my show all the time. But he’s really into this thing that so many people are about the conspiracy where Hollywood is fooling us, where all the celebrated women are really men, and lots of the celebrated men are really women. And this was before the whole transgender thing, so I don’t even understand it. I say, come on. I mean, I’ve had people say, Marilyn Monroe was a male.
MAA:
Oh my God.
DJ:
I say, well, they did a great job if that’s the case. But you can do that. So that’s the problem is you do run into that. And then in the JFK thing, there are people that support me a lot on Substack who I’m grateful for and I don’t want to argue with them, but there’s more and more people that think Jackie pulled the trigger and shot JFK.
MAA:
What?! I’ve never heard that one before.
DJ:
Yes, it’s the newest thing. It wasn’t enough that the driver did it, Bill Greer. The driver was part of the conspiracy. He stopped and let it happen, but he didn’t follow protocol.… And then I’ve had a guest on my show that thought George H.W. Bush was a gunman in the Dallas records. I said, “You really think they would’ve wouldn’t have hired somebody?” He was the son of a senator at that time. It’s not like he was a mafia hitman or something. So that’s the problem, but I entertain everything.…
You’re going to get the questions here, but these might not be in your area. John Basiglone said, “Ask her about Building 7 if she even knows about it. What about Building 7?”
MAA:
I actually haven’t gotten that deeply into 9/11, but of course, what I have been exposed to—in fact, the very morning it happened, my husband and I just immediately knew it was a false flag. We were actually listening to NPR on the way to work, and when they said the first plane flew into the building, he said, “What did they do?” And all of the evidence that has come out since then and Architects [& Engineers] for 9/11 [Truth], all of that. It’s so in a way, so incredibly clear that it was a false flag intended to usher in the War on Terrorism. They had all of the documents already prepared to immediately sign and disseminate and impose this new era that really, in a way, was the beginning of what they accelerated during COVID. The terrorism was wearing off, so then we had to have this new public health scare that no one can control. You can’t pinpoint it to a certain person. So it’s always in the ether, and you have the fear and you’re able to get people to relinquish their freedoms and rights for this completely phantom frightening bogeyman.
DJ:
For people like me, and you sound like you’re on board, too, but if you’ve been studying these things for years, and that’s why we come to where we are now, there’s no reason for anybody to trust the authorities. That’s why I have more and more people—I have so many anarchists that were fans of mine early on, and I was never an anarchist, but I have no argument for them anymore. Because what authority is there that’s worth respecting? I don’t know. I don’t know of any—I mean the police? Your local school board? Who would it be, I dunno, maybe your librarian? I don’t know, but that’s not really an authority.
MAA:
Yeah, but librarians are the ones censoring now as you pointed out earlier.
DJ:
Well, yes, they’re certainly censoring my book, Masking the Truth, that’s for sure. They’re censoring, but they want gender queer and things like that in there. When I see the left, they say, “We’re against book banning.” I say, “Wait a minute, you’re against certain political books, but you want books that have graphic depictions of—” and it’s always grown men with young boys, and young boys will be reading that. I mean, I don’t understand that. And that’s why anybody that doesn’t believe in conspiracy, you got to explain that kind of stuff because would a normal educator think that? Why would a normal educator, I was reading today where a kindergarten teacher, and he was a male kindergarten teacher, which not too many of those, but he was, regardless. And he said he objected to what he called the Woke—they had a course called Woke Kindergarten or something like that.
The titles were like, Whatchyou Doin’? Or something completely grammatically incorrect. And I’m thinking, what are educators doing? Are they trying to start kids in kindergarten with not being able to speak the language correctly? I’m a community college background, a dropout. I dunno what your educational background is, but the educational world is—how can anybody really trust that at this point?
MAA:
I was an English major, and I have a BA. I feel grateful that I was in college in the nineties, late nineties is when I graduated. I feel like I escaped the heavy-duty indoctrination that really started happening in the 2000s. And 2010 is I think when the Wokeism kicked off really intensely. When I went to college, the emphasis was still on the books, the literature. There was the scent of postmodernism in the air, but I actively veered away from that and was focusing on reading itself and not theory about reading and all the silliness that obfuscates the actual literature itself.
It is so clear that the education system from preschool, really, through PhD programs, is completely an indoctrination system. I don’t know if you’ve read Jacques Ellul’s Propaganda, but I highly, highly recommend everyone read it. I’m listening to the audiobook right now, and I want to mark every single sentence practically. One of the things he talks about—and this was published in 1962—is how governments realized they need to start indoctrinating people as soon as they practically come out of the womb. So they’re immersed in this ideology, and he gave the example of when a government wants to start a war, you have to convince people to sacrifice their lives for these lies. It’s a lot harder to convince adults who are critical thinkers to go along with the propaganda, the war propaganda. But if you start indoctrinating them from youth and jingoism and patriotism and why you must give your life for your country and that sort of thing, it’s much easier to manipulate them when they come of age and it comes time to throw them into the war juggernaut.
DJ:
And that’s what they want, good citizens. In the past, the schools wanted good citizens in a different way where they taught civics. They haven’t done that for decades now. They want citizens of the state. They want obedience. And they’re introducing so many—I don’t care what any adult does, but it’s ridiculous when you introduce these poisonous concepts, this transgender confusion, when they’re so little, they don’t even know what a gender is. And by the way, am I the only one that says, how can a child consent to changing their sex when they can’t legally have sex? And you could still be arrested? I mean, if you can’t consent to sex, how do you—it’s mind-boggling what we’re allowing to happen. And that’s the left today. That’s not our left.
MAA:
It’s psychological and emotional abuse of children and using them as political tools.
DJ:
Again, the left that I remember back in the dinosaur era when I was a teenager and coming of age—you had a lot of libertarianism because we had a thing called victimless crimes. You remember victimless crimes? I don’t even think anybody knows what that is anymore, but that’s people like me. We wanted to legalize pot, decriminalize all drugs. Nobody should be punished for any sexual stuff. Who cares? It’s victimless crimes, that kind of thing. But we didn’t envision this. We didn’t envision that you’re going to ask a kindergartner, “Do you really want to be a boy or a girl?”
MAA:
There is a victim there, though. That’s not a victimless crime.
DJ:
Right, exactly. But I mean, back then, when we’re thinking of it, these are consenting people. They can’t consent. And we were concerned about, again, with the ACLU back then, you remember when they had the Skokie, Illinois? That was a Jewish lawyer, and I’ve tried to get him on my show, it’s Gold—, I forget his name, but he won’t do interviews anymore. He’s still around. But I mean, to me, that guy’s a courageous guy because these weren’t people—nowadays, the left calls people they disagree with Nazis, well, the right does, too, who aren’t saying they’re Nazis. But these people were saying, “Yes, we’re Nazis.” So they’re saying, “We are Nazis. Yes, we’re Heil Hitler.” And they wanted to march through an openly Jewish area. They were trying to provoke things, of course. But the ACLU recognized, “Okay, we object to this, but we have to support it.” So that’s what it’s supposed to mean. Even if you object to it. If they had a group of lone nutters that were trying to say Oswald did it, I’d have to defend them. Even though I know, of course, it’s a big lie. Absolutely.
MAA:
It’s their right to say that.
DJ:
Whatever happened to that? I don’t understand why people, I know you must run it. Do you get people objecting to you being a free speech purist?
MAA
Oh, yeah. I have a piece that I published recently called On Fearing Freedom, and I talk about how the propagandists have gradually acclimated the public to the idea that freedom is dangerous.
Again, referencing Jacques Ellul, he talks about pre-propaganda or sociological conditioning, which is nudging the public toward this new recalibrated morality or value system in which principles that were once held sacred are eventually shown to be vilified. Something like free speech, you can’t have free speech in a country or a world where the Ministry of Truth presents a narrative. Free speech is too much of a danger to their narrative. And that’s one of the reasons the Internet is such a danger to them and why Big Tech has had to come in and kind of clamp down on all that “dangerous” freedom. We’ve been gradually conditioned, especially with Trump Derangement Syndrome, and everybody saying, “Oh, well, we can’t have Trump or anyone from the right spreading these scary ideas. And so of course, yeah, some censorship makes sense.” So gradually people relinquish their freedoms because they think it’s the right thing to do. They’ve been psychologically manipulated into it.
DJ:
Yes! I’ve told this story before, you may not know it because I learned it when I was writing my book Crimes and Cover-ups in American Politics: 1776–1963, which Ron Paul wrote the foreword to, so very gratified with that. But I learned something when I was writing—probably one-millionth of 1 percent of Americans know this, but we all hear it—when they first put the asterisk on free speech was the old, “Well, you can have free speech, but you can’t yell ‘Fire!’ in a crowded theater.” That came from World War I when Eugene Debs and socialists and other people were protesting World War I, Wilson threw them in prison. They appealed it to the Supreme Court. Oliver Wendell Holmes, great liberal, Supreme Court justice, he’s the one who came up with that. He said, “You can’t yell ‘Fire!’ in a crowded theater.” And I pointed out many times, protesting the war is not yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater. What are you talking about? And people, it rolls off their tongue. And I said, “Do you know where that came from?” And they give you a blank look, but now we have this hate speech thing, and oh boy, hate speech is thoughtcrime. Call it what it is.
What is hate speech? Hate’s an emotion. Who determines that? Margaret, they’re trying to indoctrinate people in this, and they’re trying to solidify having hate speech crimes and laws. And everybody on the left, the old left that I used to be a part of. The ACLU, even, the ACLU probably believes in hate speech now. I don’t understand it! The left is now concerned, it used to be back in the day that, maybe to a fault, they were trying to, they’re still finding victims, but they’re not really trying to get rights for them. They’re just trying to punish others for supposedly saying bad things about them or something. But back then it was, you remember the seven things you couldn’t say on radio and television, George Carlin and things like that we’re talking about, you’re trying to open things up. Now the left is exactly the opposite. “What did you say? You can’t say that!” Absolutely. So what does it even mean to be liberal at this point?
MAA:
I think it’s partly that they now are the ones in power. Before, when they were fighting for free speech and our freedoms, it’s because they were resisting, say the neoconservative government, the Bush administration, things like that. So they could see how important it was to be able to have freedom to protest for dissent and to be able to speak freely about opposing opinions. But once they became the ones in power, they wanted to lock that down and prevent others from expressing their opposing opinions and critiquing their side. So it really wasn’t about the principles themselves, but it was about attaining power. And once that power was attained, they cemented it.
DJ:
Yeah, they absolutely did. It’s just ironic that there’s nobody ever since—Cynthia McKinney has become a friend of mine, the former member of Congress, and she was wonderful. And then Naomi Wolf, Cindy Sheehan, a friend of mine, the anti-war woman, and Kucinich is still kind of good, but that’s the left today. Jimmy Dore is good.
MAA:
Yeah, I love Jimmy Dore.
DJ:
But yeah, that’s it. I mean, where is the left? And other than that, so we look to Tucker Carlson and people on the right because those are the only people that are questioning this at all. Who on the left is questioning—you mentioned Bernie Sanders. And Bernie Sanders lost a lot of people when he didn’t even protest himself being, the election being, I mean, he had the emails documenting what they were going to do, and he accepted the Russian nonsense.
MAA:
I know. I was so disappointed. It’s good to be disillusioned in a way because you see the reality that you really shouldn’t put your faith in politicians. You shouldn’t put your faith in any leaders. And that’s why I go back to the people. That’s why it’s so important that people have free access to information, that there’s no censorship, that they’re not indoctrinated into a narrative so they can make educated decisions and use their own critical reasoning faculties to assess the information and make decisions for themselves. And that’s why we’re in such a dangerous situation right now. People have these blinders on, and they don’t even know there’s an entire world of information outside the walls that they are corralled into.
DJ:
You’re exactly right. We have to keep in touch because I’d love to see some of your fiction.… I always said, I became a published author probably fifty years too late. Because fifty years ago, there were a lot more readers. The books, people, especially young people, they just don’t buy. That’s why Substack is great because you probably have a better chance of—and you get instant, like I said, and I don’t have that many paid subscribers, but it’s growing, and I’m already making more money probably than I’m going to make for my books, and I’ve got nine of them. But the people just don’t do that. They just don’t buy anymore. It’s a frustrating time unless you’re one of a handful of authors. It’s like everything else in this country where everything is—just a few people benefit from it. So you have a handful of authors. Stephen King can put his disinfo about the JFK assassination out. There is a guy, boy, he’s become, and the TDS stuff you mentioned, it’s great, you’ve kind overcome your TDS in a way in terms you recognize what it was, but it really has infected so many good people. I know I’ve had people that interviewed me, reviewed my books, used to like me, but the ones I didn’t lose with Trump initially ’cuz I supported Trump in 2016 initially. And then with COVID, questioning that, I lost the rest of them there. But I said, “You don’t understand. Whatever you think about Trump, he could be as evil as you think he is. But that doesn’t make the CIA good. That doesn’t make Joe Biden good.” I mean, isn’t that what we’re looking at here?
MAA:
Yeah, I have a piece called Letter to the Menticided, a 12-Step Recovery Program, walking through people through the ways in which they have been programmed, brainwashed.
I reference the work of Joost Meerloo. I highly recommend everyone read his Rape of the Mind. That’s another highly illuminating piece. He also wrote Delusion and Mass Delusion. Both of those are excellent for understanding how propaganda and coercion are used to menticide people, which is essentially kill their critical reasoning faculties. And, of course, television plays a pivotal role. I think my number-two step after they acknowledge that they have a problem, which is number one, is to turn off the television and disengage from all mainstream media. Even if a grain of truth seeps through every so often, it’s only because that grain of truth serves the narrative.
They’re essentially coordinating to construct a manufactured reality that is then used to guide you toward preconceived objectives. Just like Edward Bernays outlined very clearly in Propaganda, which I think it was published what, 1928? And also he wrote Crystallizing Public Opinion. These are not secrets. They wrote about exactly how mass persuasion is achieved. The problem is that very few people know that these mechanisms even exist and that public relations firms essentially identify—they say, “Okay, we want the public to start believing this because we want them to be able to accept that we do this totalitarian measure. So what actions do we need to take to cause the public to change its opinion on this matter?” And so really it’s about mass control, mass persuasion. My twelve-step recovery program is helping people see those puppet strings and then sever them.
DJ:
Well, I don’t know what you’ve recovered from because you seem like you’ve always been kind of—like I have, I gues—you’ve never been really … Some of the people that I’ve talked to, they were leading successful lives, and they weren’t radical at all. And then something, 9/11 maybe, or even years later, like I said, I would count Naomi Wolf along that. I still really don’t know what radicalized her. I don’t know why they attacked her so much. I still can’t figure that out. I never had a chance to ask her. And she probably doesn’t want to really dwell on it.
MAA:
My sense is she wrote the book, I think it’s The End of [America], and was it 2010? So she recognized the telltale signs of a closed system, when a totalitarian system is advancing, all the stages they go through. At the time, that was being practiced by the Bush II administration, so the left could very easily identify with and accept those principles. But she saw the exact same signs in COVID. And when she pointed that out, for them, they can’t accept that their side is capable of doing what they consider the far-right extreme is doing. And that gets back to the horseshoe theory of totalitarianism where fascism and communism and all of those extremes meet in the middle and they have the exact same characteristics when it gets distilled.
DJ:
So many people, they don’t know what to call this. So many people on the right, they’ll call communists and Bolsheviks, even. A lot of people call it fascism, Nazis. I don’t know what it is. We’re under tyranny. The names don’t really matter. Oligarchy. These people don’t believe in freedom. They’re swearing to uphold a document they don’t believe in because they don’t believe in the First Amendment, that’s for sure.
MAA:
They’re actively trying to destroy the Constitution. I feel very fortunate that we live in America and we had Founding Fathers who had prescience to create a document that was a bulwark against tyranny. And I think the First Amendment and the Second Amendment are what protects us in a way that other countries don’t have the luxury of having. But of course, that doesn’t stop politicians from trying to chip away at it and trick people into thinking those are bad things.
DJ:
No, and you can’t put—I’ve talked about the trials of Alex Jones. Whatever people want to think of him, and lots—especially in the alternative media, most people don’t like him. But again, I questioned Sandy Hook. I’ve written stuff about that. I don’t accuse anybody of anything. But you can’t just prosecute somebody—I said, “You’re cheering this on because, okay, you’re emotionally, there’s children involved.” They’ve demonized that. They demonized Pizzagate. Let’s say a JFK assassination guy. What if the Kennedy family wanted to start suing all of us because we’ve harassed them? And especially the 9/11 victims’ families, because most of them, not all of them, but most of them seem to, because they got nice funds, maybe that helped or whatever, but they accept the narrative. But what if they wanted to say, “You guys, hey, you’re bringing up this is hurting me. You’re harassing me.” So it’s a very slippery slope. And people cheered that on. You can’t do that. And same thing with Trump. This woman, E. Jean Carroll, I mean, she couldn’t remember the year she was raped.
They could find a woman thirty years ago for any of us that said, “Hey, well, we don’t remember the year it happened or anything, and there’s no evidence, but.” So I think these fines, you have to take the personality out of it and people realize that, “Hey, this could come on for you.” I’m no a fan of Rudy Giuliani, but he doesn’t have the money, but 140-some million dollars to two poll workers because he questioned the process? This is weird. I say that present-day America, Margaret, I don’t know what the Soviets are like or the Nazis are like, or Maoist China. I don’t know all that. We just heard what it was like, but we know what this is. How much worse could they have been than this?
MAA:
I’ve always thought places like the UK, that’s really kind of a frightening place to be writing and working because it’s so easy for them to slap a libel suit or slander suit on you. And then look at places like Germany and what CJ Hopkins is going through. I don’t know if you’ve—
DJ:
I didn’t know about that. I read your thing about it there. Talk about that a little bit. Exactly what did he say that he got in trouble for?
MAA:
It really is preposterous. For those people who don’t know, CJ Hopkins is an absolutely brilliant satirist, and everyone should be following his Substack, hilarious work. He did a book, his collection of essays, his latest one is called The Rise of the New Normal Reich. And the book cover, the artwork was designed by a wonderful artist named Anthony Freda. It has a white surgical mask with a very faint swastika on it. And the point is to underscore CJ’s work that demonstrates how much in parallel the rise of the New Normal Reich is to the Third Reich. He’s been documenting this from early 2020, and you can very clearly see the parallels in terms of the discrimination against the unvaccinated. And, of course, everybody has the vapors when you draw these comparisons with the Third Reich, or especially the Holocaust, which CJ, I will clarify, never does. He doesn’t say what’s happening now is the Holocaust. He says it’s like 1930s Germany and the rise of the Reich.
I actually do make the comparison with the Holocaust because we are witnessing likely the deaths of 17 million people from this soft democide that’s invisible because it’s done through self-injection.
Going back to CJ, he did two tweets showing that mask artwork with the faint swastika. And the Berlin state prosecutor charged him with relativization of the Holocaust without any sense of humor or acknowledgment that he is critical of the Holocaust and the Nazis. They implied because he had this symbol in this artwork from his book that he is advocating Nazi ideology.
DJ:
Yeah, that’s like banning Huckleberry Finn because of the language from Mark Twain, who was obviously using it in a critical way. And that’s where we’re at, isn’t it? You can’t even, no matter what the position is on it, the word, “You can’t do that!”
MAA:
He did this absolutely brilliant speech that he gave at his trial. His article’s called The Verdict, and I think I reprinted it in a recent piece, A Good Day for Freedom, Truth and Justice.
He really exposed the hystericalness of this true living satire of a satirist being put on trial for being critical of Nazilike ideology and practices and demonstrated the totalitarianism that the state The [Rise of the] New Normal Reich describes is exhibiting by persecuting him for thoughtcrimes. And he won. But the Berlin state prosecutor has already appealed the decision. So he’s stuck in this Kafkaesque trial they could just keep repeating over and over again. It’s just ludicrous.
DJ:
It’s sad to see it in other places, too, but in America, they’re putting so much emphasis into what I call thoughtcrimes.
You mentioned, the George Soros prosecutors and the big cities. Look at those migrants that—and I question that whole thing about the cops. I don’t understand how fully armed cops can be beaten up by unarmed. To me, I don’t even understand that. But it doesn’t speak highly for them being able to control things. But regardless, they did beat them, and they were photographed flipping off the camera and walking by after they were released without bail. And how is that possible? And then you had the January 6 political prisoners, who committed no violent acts that are sitting in there for three years, denied all due process—where are the civil libertarians?
MAA:
Where is Trump taking up their cause? That’s another black eye for him in my book.
DJ:
Yeah. I’ve had several of these people on my show, devoted a lot of shows to January 6. I’ve had Ashli Babbitt’s mother, Micki Witthoeft, on two times. Just about all of them, they still support Trump. That’s how powerful … so many people that like what I do, they get mad if I say something bad about Trump. I said, “Look, I wish he would do some of the things he says, but he has to do it. And you all act like he wasn’t president. He was there for four years.”
He’s been in there and he should—there was a lot of shenanigans on election night. There usually is, but it was blatant, but he handled it in the way—either he’s just an impossible egotist that has a twelve-year-old mentality and “it’s all about me, me, me,” or he’s an act. He’s Trumpenstein, I think. But regardless, they didn’t handle it the right way. They should have concentrated on, “Hey, look at this video here of this box being opened after the other workers leave,” that kind of stuff. But his personality got in the way, and that’s why I call it the Trumpenstein Project. It always gets in the way.
MAA:
Any person, leader, whatever, I will give them credit where credit is due and criticize where criticism is due. And in Trump’s case, I will give them credit for initiating the withdrawal from the World Health Organization, which I think is crucial because that’s the primary mechanism that’s being used to usher in one-world tyranny.
Other than that, I can’t fathom that he still doesn’t realize the vaccines are harming and killing people. He’s still taking credit for saving millions of people with his beloved bioweapon. And that’s just as recently as a few months ago.
His base has been screaming this at him, and he’s still won’t acknowledge it. Some people, it’s like the people who love Trump leap over themselves to make excuse after excuse after excuse for him. Just stop fooling yourselves. If you want to vote for him, vote for him, but be honest with yourself about his failings and his strengths.
DJ:
The process … nothing changed since 2020. Not only has there been no reform, but they will prosecute you if you claim there was fraud. And 2022, the midterms—Kari Lake may be prosecuted in Arizona for that. Why did they think that they could possibly—Trump’s ahead in the polls and stuff? And maybe they’ll do that ’cuz I think this is all selected. I’m hoping for a Trump victory because the only thing that I can possibly get out of, a positive, is the entertainment factor, watching CNN and MSNBC, it’d be must-see TV. That’s the only reason to turn them on for the only time. That’s the only thing I can get out of it, and it doesn’t do anything for me except for I would be entertained by it, but that’s how bad the political situation is that we can’t—is there anything you see that can? I like RFK Jr.’s, some things about him, a lot of stuff about him. I don’t understand his position on Israel. It’s like somebody’s holding a gun to his head. He’s really over the top with it.
MAA:
I know.
DJ:
I don’t understand that. He lost a lot of people doing that. Because it doesn’t fit with the rest of his program. He should be sympathetic to the Palestinians, so I don’t understand that. Do you like any of these people? Do you like RFK Jr.?
MAA:
When RFK Jr. first announced that he was running, I was happy to hear that because even though I don’t really participate in the partisan games anymore, because I’m looking at this from a much higher global perspective and focusing on that story, I knew that he would raise the issue of vaccine harms and dangers and specifically COVID tyranny and censorship. I felt the value of him running came from the ability to bring those issues to the public stage. Now, of course, he’s been subjected to censorship and smear campaigns and all of that. So how successful that’s been, I don’t know, but I think it at least pushed the Overton window a little bit further open on those topics.
DJ:
No matter what happens, after the last couple elections, neither side is going to accept the results. That’s the thing. So half the country now, the problem is the left is, today’s left, they’re financed. They have people behind them that are giving them equipment, providing them with bricks and things like that, but the right has nothing, it’s organic. And look what happened after January 6. They’re going to be reluctant to do anything.
Either way, it’s going to be a nightmare in terms of the country. What do you think of, because there’s more and more people talking about secession. There’s the thing on the Texas border. I think they established in 1860 that this is not a voluntary union, so I don’t think they’re going to let that happen. We really are divided. I personally, we’re never going to be able to live with people that think there are fifty-seven genders and that men can have babies and just absolute insanity like that. And want little kids to be able to in kindergarten decide, put kitty litter boxes in school bathrooms. They’re doing that now. They’re literally doing that. It’s like, how can we live with those? That’s madness. It’s like letting inmates run the asylum.
MAA:
Maybe it’s because I’ve dedicated my Substack to what I say, unmasking totalitarianism and awakening the sleeping before tyranny triumphs. I have this probably crazy optimism that if people can begin to see the propaganda and see through it and see how they’ve been manipulated that maybe they can come to their senses and we can reason toward some kind of rational way of living together and free ourselves from the shackles of the propagandists. Now, I realize that is overly optimistic, given how deeply indoctrinated and brainwashed so many people are, but in times throughout history, when we’ve seen periods of mass hysteria, people do eventually, as Charles McKay says, there’s—
DJ:
Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds!
MAA:
Exactly. Come back to their senses one by one. So they go crazy in crowds, but then they regain their senses one by one, which of course takes a much longer time. But once we reach a critical mass and the reality starts becoming clear to enough people, like 20 percent or more, it starts, I think, eventually, it’s harder and harder for people to sustain their delusions, and eventually they just fade away. Also, when people have to experience harsh realities and war and things that they’re really suffering, all of these superficial “causes” and ideological splinter issues disintegrate because then they’re having to deal with the hard truth of, say, a famine or food shortages, water shortages, all of these things that the WEF is working to orchestrate so people will begin sacrificing more and more of their belongings and freedoms. But I think once people—I go back to the Frank Zappa quote about when the illusion of democracy falls away, they take away the chairs and the curtain and you see the brick wall at the back of the theater. I think we’re getting closer and closer to being able to see that brick wall. And then once enough people who are brainwashed kind of start slamming their head into their brick wall, maybe we can liberate them from the menticide that is keeping them enslaved.
DJ:
Absolutely. Hello to OR Busy in the UK and William Hale, good to see you from the land Down Under. If the flat-earthers out there, you’re hanging on by the bottom of your feet, I guess, so hang on tight. Good to see you guys here.
I think there’s a good 70 to 80 million, however many people voted for Trump, those are the people that are awake to some degree. The problem is most of them are still putting their trust in Trump, but they are awake. So what happens, Trump is seventy-seven or whatever he is, we don’t know. He’s overweight, who knows. But at some point, what comes after Trump, because there’s no heir apparent, and these people have put so much into the cult of personality, into Trump’s personality, but they know—the border just keeps getting overrun, and it doesn’t look like anything’s going to be done there. Continue to have troops in 150 countries around the world. And it looks like we’re going to continue getting these battles everywhere. The infrastructure is still untouched after sixty years. All this stuff that people know about now, never mind the conspiratorial stuff, but they understand this stuff’s right there. At some point, they have to, I mean, will they all become anarchists? I get so many people saying, “Stop paying taxes.” I’d like to know how to do that. I don’t want, again, power in numbers. We’re scared to do it because we don’t want. So what do you think’s going to happen to those 80 million people that, especially if Trump doesn’t get elected or selected, if he’s not in there, I don’t know what they’re going to do. This is an intolerable situation. I mean, the founders were upset with stamps and tea and that kind of stuff. This is real—a series, series of unending events or something Thomas Jefferson talked about, all with the same purpose. We have that here. So when will people, I dunno, revolt, for lack of a better word.
MAA:
I think as long as they’re comfortable, as long as they’re being fed, as long as they can continue working, people are too complacent to resist or rock the boat.
And I don’t want to see any kind of violent revolution. I always go back to what I wrote about in my second essay, which is called COVID IS OVER! … If You Want It.
I referenced Étienne de La Boétie’s The Politics of Obedience. And he basically says, “You do not need to place your hands on the tyrant to topple him. You merely need to withdraw your support, and the colossus will come crashing down of its own accord.”
That’s why I always go back to mass peaceful noncompliance, why I love what the Canadian truckers did and what European farmers are now doing, starting with the Dutch and French and Italians. It’s spreading all over the world—especially because the truckers and the farmers are our lifelines, really, because they are the human beings who enable us to survive if we aren’t self-independent by having our own garden and things like that. Almost everybody relies on them to survive. And so having them on our side, being willing to risk their livelihoods and stand up against tyranny is incredibly encouraging. I just want to see that keep spreading. As the rest of the population realizes how much totalitarianism has encroached and how much worse they’re really trying to make it and using the cloak of climate change in order to take more and more away from us, my hope is that the rest of the people will gradually wake up and start joining in this mass peaceful noncompliance, which may be nothing more than just not supporting the politician, not voting for the politicians who enable this, not purchasing from the corporations that are funded by BlackRock and Vanguard and State Street and practicing ESG. Of course, that’s almost every single corporation, so it’s pretty challenging to avoid that. But just making more and more people aware of the entities that are enslaving them and then empowering them to step away from those, my hope is that will help restore some of our freedoms.
DJ:
We hope. We still have a half-hour. Can you stay? Okay. I just want to make sure you didn’t have anything going on. You guys have any questions in the chat, throw it up here.
It’s fascinating to talk to someone like you because again, there aren’t many of us, because most people—I get called a white nationalist. I get called all kinds of things because of the way I talk. There is a great replacement, and I am tired. I am tired of being beaten up in the head for being white. I had nothing to do with it. It’s ridiculous. So it’s stupid.
People don’t remember the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement was built around sit-in demonstrations and objecting to not being able to go to restaurants. And now you have the left kicking Sarah Huckabee Sanders out of a restaurant, and the owner did that and the left applauded it. I saw so many people on Twitter saying, “Here’s the places she could eat, Cracker Barrel” and all this. Just think back then, if the right had said, “Here’s where they can eat, Watermelon Palace” or something like that. It’s the exact same thought process.
It’s really the same kind of thing with the Russian thing. You see Rachel Maddow and the people like that, they’re talking about, “Tucker Carlson’s a Putin apologist or a Putin agent.” Trump’s a Russian—everybody’s, “Russia, Russia, Russia.” That’s exactly what they said back then, but it was the right saying it. They don’t have any sense of history and realize they’re doing the same thing.
MAA:
No. That’s the problem. The people who are ideologically captured have lost their sense of humor, have forgotten history, have had their memories overwritten by the narrative and whatever they’ve been implanted with, whatever the latest programming is, the current thing. This is another thing Ellul talks about is people can’t handle ambiguity. So when they get this information overload and this chaos, and Meredith Miller talks about this as well, it’s like this hypnotic state of induction. People cling to simple black-and-white clear answers, which the propagandists—they create the chaos, they create the confusion. And when people are panicking and they want that life preserver, they’ll cling to whatever the propagandists provide as the answer, the solution, the truth. So that’s the challenge we are facing is just waking people up to the fact that they are being emotionally and psychologically manipulated.
DJ:
Zyn87 says, “do you guys think it will come to the point where we will have to be ‘re educated’?” I mean, Hillary Clinton has suggested something like that. And I got to tell you, if I was still in IT and I was in the regular working world, if I hadn’t been drummed out of there and forced to become a lowly paid full-time writer, that would probably come down. I would’ve not been wearing my mask at work. I would’ve been caught talking about what a psyop it was. I would’ve been fired probably a hundred times, but I couldn’t exist in this world today because, so they would have to reeducate me. Maybe they’ll bring back electric shock first, or what do you think they’re going to do?
MAA:
What I would like to see is people to be “uneducated.” In other words, have all those illusions flushed from them. And I would love to see a propaganda literacy movement where people educate themselves about how propaganda and sociological conditioning work so they can then learn to identify the telltale signals and see through it when the propagandists are trying to use that against them.
DJ:
It’s so refreshing to talk with you because there are so few people that—I’m one of these people, I don’t get excited about anything that anybody says. No matter what it is, it doesn’t matter. I can’t say, “Well, you can’t say that,” or “you can say that, but you can’t say that, that’s going too far.” What does that mean? Because you’re putting—who’s to decide that you can’t? I don’t understand that. Even though I disagree with these people, I don’t want to shackle Rachel Maddow, as ridiculous as I think she is. I don’t want somebody saying, “Well, she has to be fired because of something she says.” Maybe she should be fired because she’s not any good to begin with.
MAA:
Well, outright lying is dangerous. Technically, the government used to be prohibited from using propaganda techniques against the public. Under Obama, I believe it was in 2012, basically changed that. So now the CIA, the FBI, they can all use these mind-manipulation techniques against the public without impunity. There used to be protections in place for that. And that is where I would draw the line because when you have the ability to use these mass communication mechanisms to control people’s perception of reality en masse, then it does become dangerous because we have all these people walking around thinking black is white or white is black, and you can no longer reason with them.
DJ:
Two plus two equals five. That used to be a joke in Orwell. That literally is—they’re saying that now! It’s like, did you not read 1984? The lovely Deborah Wheeler says, “Please ask Margaret to apply that to what they are ‘teaching’ the children in gov’t. schools.” I’m not sure what she wants you to apply, but I guess maybe comment on what they’re—they’re certainly not teaching them cursive handwriting or anything like that.
MAA:
Yeah, they’re doing what George Carlin said schools were created to do, which is to create obedient workers.
You have to educate people’s independent critical thinking skills out of them so they will automatically accept whatever the media feeds them through their trough.
DJ:
Yes, absolutely. My kids are grown, but if I was still, I would’ve been on a viral video every week at those school boards. But I’ve lived close to Loudoun County, Virginia. I used to work there, and that was the epicenter of the school board protests. It doesn’t look like they got anything accomplished. It doesn’t look like there was much turnover at all there. And I said at the time, “If we can’t make inroads,” because you have to start at the bottom. My friend Vince Agnelli, who’s probably listening, he believes we have to start local societies and just withdraw from there and just don’t feed the monster anymore. But the problem is, if we can’t get change done, if it’s entrenched, and if you saw some of those videos with these people, they are tyrants on the school board.
That’s a low level. If we can’t get change there, what hope do we have? We know we don’t have any hope in Congress. Ninety-six percent of them are supposedly reelected every election, and who knows if they’re counting the votes. But it’s very depressing to think that we could … I don’t understand what kind of parents, especially white parents, “My kids are going to school, and they’re teaching, they’re beating my little kid over the head in kindergarten and first grade that he’s got something to be guilty about or he should feel bad about something ’cuz of—.” I don’t even think they did that to black kids in school. I don’t think they ever told them officially, “You’re subpar.” But it’s like that, isn’t it?
MAA:
Yeah, it’s psychological abuse once again. And they’re sowing these deep-seated divisions from childhood. What are these people going to be like when they grow up, and how much hatred are they going to have and see the others subhuman and dehumanized. It’s really tragic what’s happening. And then they’re not only doing the white children a disservice, but they’re doing black children and minorities a disservice by saying they’re victims and teaching them they need to be dependent on the system and they are helpless and they don’t have the power to take responsibility for themselves and their lives. So they are just perpetuating this terrible culture that is causing them to feel oppressed to begin with.
DJ:
I would urge everyone to listen to Jason Whitlock’s Fearless podcast. This is a black guy who was a sports writer. First of all, he’s very funny, and he is the best voice in terms of—because he criticizes, no other person criticizes black culture like he does. But this guy, he calls it racial idolatry, and he talks about their perpetual victimhood status. And he’s exactly right because they’re not doing anybody any favors. It used to be school—teachers didn’t acknowledge what race you were.
I thought that was the idea back then. Colorblind society. Now it’s first and foremost, and I don’t understand why parents are allowing every one of those schools, those white parents especially should be up in arms. They should be out there saying, “This is ridiculous. Whatever critical race theory is, we want it. We don’t want these books in the library. I don’t want my little kids—first of all, I don’t want my little white kid subjected to people saying he’s horrible and he must apologize for something. He is five or six years old. And I don’t want him to possibly think he’s a her or anything like that.” Why are you confusing them with—I mean, you’re right. It’s hideous abuse, it’s psychological abuse of these children.
MAA:
It’s once again, going back to collectivism because they don’t want people to see themselves as empowered, responsible individuals, but instead as part of a collective identity. They can be much more manipulated when they’re a group and they have that group consciousness as opposed to being independent individuals who are able to make decisions and think for themselves.
DJ:
Christine is there, and she’s the second one—I’m sorry, I forget somebody else said they homeschool as well. Christine says she was a teacher. She “gave up her teaching career for my girl. I couldn’t see her going to school in today’s environment.” She saw the sausage being made, and that’s wonderful. And that’s the problem. The right wing answer to everything is homeschool, and that sounds good, but the problem is it’s not economically feasible for most families because that means that otherwise you wouldn’t have both parents working so much. I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m just glad my kids aren’t little today because I would have so many issues with them. It’s ridiculous. Do you have children?
MAA:
No, just cats, thankfully. I shouldn’t say, thankfully.
DJ:
They can’t do too much to them, I don’t think. Not yet. Well, they should be up in arms over the humans using kitty litter boxes. I don’t know. Seems to me that’s cultural appropriation, isn’t it?
We’ve got fifteen minutes left. Is there anything you wanted to talk about that I’m not talking about? If you listen to my show, I’m all over the map. I’ll talk old Hollywood, and then I’ll be talking whatever, some kind of conspiracy, so I could talk about anything you’d like to talk about.
MAA:
I would say one of our most powerful weapons is using the same kind of linguistic tools the propagandists used to manipulate us to uncover their lies. I have focused on things like framing and using certain words and terms that reveal their deception. For example, I coined the term philanthropath in my Anatomy of a Philanthropath series in June 2022.
And that is “a psychopath masquerading as a philanthropist.” So that term “philanthropath” is now practically mainstreamed. It’s being used constantly for Bill Gates, which was one of my goals. And people like Neil Oliver have used it in multiple monologues. If you go to Twitter and you search for “philanthropath,” it is often paired with Bill Gates, and you’ll see thousands and thousands of people using it.
I think that’s really powerful to be able to just have a single term to show the deception of whatever you’re trying to reveal. Another example is Mistakes Were NOT Made. I wrote and published that poem on January 1, 2023. I knew that what was coming down the pike and was already starting to happen with COVID is that the leaders, once their lies collapse and everyone begins to see the harms that COVID policies caused to the economy, to lives, to health, they have to start coming out with their “mistakes were made” excuses. And that Atlantic limited hangout of we need a pandemic amnesty and basically making all the excuses.
So I intentionally published that poem with the title “Mistakes Were NOT Made” to point to the fact that these were not mistakes, these were not blunders. These were all intentionally harmful and decimating policies by people who want to destroy our economy. We are dealing with a financial collapse situation where they are intentionally engineering these crises so people will turn to the government and allow them to take this and that power away from us as individuals in the name of “protecting” us and “safety” and “public health” and the “greater good,” which is—as Albert Camus said, “The welfare of people is the alibi of tyrants.”
One of the reasons I use “Mistakes Were NOT Made” is I wanted—every time a politician or somebody makes an excuse saying, “Mistakes were made, and we didn’t know better.” No, we knew better.
I have a piece called Letter to the Amnesty-Demanders that basically says, “We were the ones who were telling you this from the outset from 2020, and you were calling us conspiracy theorists. And now you’re starting to see that we were telling the truth and you were being lied to, but you’re still making excuses for the perpetrators and the liars.”
I was very fortunate to collaborate with Dr. Tess Lawrie, who founded the World Council for Health, and she did a reading of my poem that went viral starting in March 2023.
People are still sharing that video, and it’s still being used daily to wake people up to all of the ways in which these lies were orchestrated. That’s just a 333-word poem that encapsulates my understanding of COVID tyranny and how it was achieved as succinctly as possible. So I encourage people to read it, to watch that video.
Then on January 1, I released a new video of a reading by Mike Yeadon.
Tess brought this emotional poignancy to her reading, and Mike brings this simmering rage, so I think they complement each other very powerfully. I encourage people to use those, to share them. Any time people are saying, “Mistakes were made,” send them Mistakes Were NOT Made and try to propagate this as much as possible because we just need to keep holding their feet to the fire and—do not let them get away with it. That’s what my poem closes with, “DON’T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.”
DJ:
Absolutely. Have you heard of the book, Stephanie Green mentions on screen Vernon Coleman’s book Anyone Who Tells You Vaccines Are Safe and Effective Is Lying?
MAA:
No, I haven’t.
DJ:
It sounds right up your alley. Check that out.…
I look at the insidious nature of what we’re up against. It’s beyond immorality what we’re seeing, some of these unconscionable things. Just in the COVID thing alone, how many people didn’t get to say goodbye to their grandparents.… People weren’t hugging each other anymore. Fauci said, “We may never be able to shake hands again.” What kind of nonsense is this? And people bought it. And if you weren’t vaccinated, in my case, I couldn’t go to my niece’s wedding, and that’s caused a fracture. My kids aren’t going to forget it. They played with her a lot. There’s so much of that going on.
MAA:
And that’s fully intentional because they want to break the bonds of human connection because that’s how we resist tyranny and authoritarianism. They wanted to divide families. And this is going back to Marxism, that’s a very common tactic is to—and cults as well. They break people apart from their families and their friends and make them feel isolated and anxious and alone. And therefore people will cling to whatever solution, this religion/cult/group/whatever political ideology offers them to save them from that feeling of anxiety and fear.
Naomi Wolf and I talked about this topic and the nature of evil in her Dissident Dialogue. I kind of take issue in a way with saying, “Well, it’s all demonic forces or Satan or whatever” because that to me gives people a pass. The people who are committing these things are psychopaths. They are culpable for their actions. And even though people like us can’t comprehend that, it doesn’t mean they’re not evil and they’re not committing these crimes.
DJ:
Well, sure. But I think people look at it—some things, it’s hard to understand. Christine, who again gave up her teaching career for her child, said she’s trying to get her daughter in a church group, and there’s a couple of trans kids in there. And again, nobody wants to—I wrote Bullyocracy, and I’m sure these are the kind of kids that were bullied a lot. But you can’t encourage it and promote it because there is something, there’s obviously at the very least confusion going on there—
MAA:
A lot of autism.
DJ:
Yes. Especially once this becomes mainstream. I know in my area, something like a 5,000-percent increase in the number of trans kids over five years ago. It’s because it’s the media! Why are we encouraging this?
MAA:
If you step back, so many of the policies you see in these issues that are being pushed all serve a depopulation agenda.
This is even happening in terms of heterosexual relationships. Those kind of standard marriage or family unit, when people would fall in love and have kids—that’s the natural way of life and humanity throughout history. But if you politicize that and make having a family and being married seem—if you vilify that and you try to promote the opposite of that, you’re decreasing the number of births. You’re serving this Club of Rome depopulation agenda, lie, and myth that has been perpetrated.
The neo-Malthusian people who have been promoting that—and that has been repeatedly disproven, but whether or not they believe overpopulation is a danger or they’re just using that to mask their philanthropathic mission to gather all the resources for themselves, we need to recognize it for what it is. You see the telltale signs of it in all these otherwise completely irrational ideas that are being promoted.
DJ:
You mentioned eugenics, and I’ve written a lot about that, and Bill Gates is certainly the poster child for that. But ironically, if you combine the vaccine and if it’s really killing as many people as some claim it is, that obviously serves the depopulation agenda. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the transgender movement really started booming right about the time COVID hit. And what does transgenderism mean? If they can get enough boys to become girls and girls to become boys, that’s depopulation. It’s not going to happen, but it’s the same thing. I think it all suits their agenda, and people ought to be worried about it.
MAA:
Once again, the pharmaceutical corporations are profiting off of it, and they’re essentially sterilizing—
DJ:
Puberty blockers and everything. Yes.
MAA:
Children, so again, that serves the depopulation agenda.
DJ:
It was one thing when I used to debate somebody about Lee Harvey Oswald killing Kennedy or something, but this is in a whole new level—or nineteen crazed Arabs doing 9/11 or something. That’s at a whole level from debating medical people—you’re stopping puberty! How can you not see bad things happening from that?! You don’t have to be a genius to know that can’t be good. But the left buys that.
My sister used to watch a little girl for a long time when she was young, and it’s almost like a daughter to her. I saw her on Facebook, and she became a teacher, a very Woke teacher. She had two boys, and both of them, I could tell by the pictures, they were all—I mean, she wore a pussy hat to Washington, DC, and everything was political. It was obvious what her politics were. And she had a lot of transgenderism stuff there. You could tell both of them maybe were gender-fluid. One of them became officially transgender, and he committed suicide. And the suicide rate for those kids is through the roof. But you can’t say it. That’s “transphobia” to say.
MAA:
The irony is they use that statistic of the high suicide rates among transgenders to bully the other side saying that it’s the fault of those who criticize them. No, it’s your fault for screwing with their heads and causing them to go on pharmaceutical products that completely ruin their natural biology and their development and their brain development as well.
DJ:
Everybody likes the show. I’m getting lots of compliments on the show. “Great guest.” You’ve had one person say you were a cutie, so that’s pretty good. It’s a pretty good day for you, huh?
See if you have any more questions in here. Twisted Pistol refused vaccines. Well, we all did. I don’t know how, I don’t know what I would’ve done. I had a decent paying job in IT, and if—they would’ve made me get vaccinated, so I don’t know. I am sure my wife would not have supported it, but I understand if you’ve given up a good salary and you know, like I did after leaving that job, I’m unemployable other than writing. But I can’t criticize people too much if their family depends on it and their family are pressuring because most of the time the family’s going to pressure them, “Hey, come on, get vaccinated. We need that money.” What do you say to people like that?
MAA:
The most tragic stories I’ve heard are of people who they were coerced by their employer into getting vaccinated and then died or became permanently disabled, which completely negates the reason they gave in and got vaccinated to begin with because they wanted to support their families. Well, now they can’t do either. They can’t support their families because either they’re dead or they’re disabled and then costing ridiculous medical bills, which again is the other perk of the vaccine injuries is it’s extraordinarily lucrative for the Medical-Pharmaceutical-Industrial Complex.
DJ:
Absolutely. There’s no question about that. Everybody’s saying, “Good show.” They all like you. Wonderful. I’ll have to communicate with you privately about writing and things like that because we have a lot in common. We’re definitely on the same page. It’s no question. It’s nice to meet somebody who came basically from the same place and who ended up in the same place. Wonderful show, everybody, everybody’s said great show, so it’s wonderful.
MAA:
You’ve got a great audience. I invite everyone to sign up for my Substack because we’ve got a really wonderful community there. I have a piece called Letter to My Karass, but one of the things has been really important to me is to nurture that community. I find the readers that I have are just really brilliant, brave, funny. They contribute so much in the comments, and I just feel really grateful to be part of this community.
DJ:
Yeah, it is great. And lots of people here, White Wolf and some others on here that are regular commentators, and it is great. They add a lot to it, especially when you get a lot of comments, and sometimes it’s funny and they add to it. So we couldn’t do it without you, obviously. Once again, we’re just about out of time. Give out your links again. Anything else you want to close with, Margaret?
MAA:
Okay, MargaretAnnaAlice.com will take you to my Substack. I really enjoyed this conversation, Don. Thank you so much for having me.
DJ:
It was wonderful. It’s nice that we’re on the same page, and it’s great to talk to kindred spirits, and I certainly wish you luck. That’s the beauty of Substack. I’m trying to follow in your footsteps because you’ve built something really good there, and I know mine is doing better and better, so hopefully, I’ll get into that realm. But it’s wonderful because you just put it out there right away, and you have subscribers that see it, and you get instant feedback, and it’s wonderful. And there’s people out there thinking, and you’re influencing people. That’s all we can ask for.
Margaret Anna Alice, wonderful talking with you. We’ll have to do it again, and I’ll be in touch with you privately. Again, thanks for coming on. Thanks everybody for listening to “I Protest.” We’ll see you next week. Same time, same bat channel.
MAA:
Thank you, guys. Thank you, everybody here.
DJ:
Take care.
MAA:
Bye-bye.
Note: I did some cleanup of the transcript for clarity and flow along with inserting relevant links.
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📖 SAVE on Signed Copies of My Fairy Tale Book!
I am currently running a sale on signed, personalized copies of my fairy tale, so now is the time to buy copies for yourself and as gifts. Message me on Substack or reply to any of my newsletters to place an order.
📚 Anthologies
Canary in a (Post) COVID World: Money, Fear, & Power (Hardback, Paperback, Kindle)
Canary in a Covid World: How Propaganda & Censorship Changed Our (My) World (Paperback, Kindle, Audiobook)
Yankee Doodle Soup for the Fringy, Tin Foil Hat–Wearing Conspiracy Theorist’s Soul (If you enter the code ALICE at checkout, Jenna will give me a royalty 🙏)
🐇 Follow Me on Social Media
⏰ Wake-up Toolkit
My Wake-up Toolkit is a great way to get acquainted with my content. I’ve organized my articles by topic for easy reference and use in your red-pilling efforts as needed. Note that I have not been able to update this since June 2024 due to a technical issue, so check my archive for more recent additions.
🌟 WARM GRATITUDE FOR THE RECS!
The single-most important driver for new readers joining my mailing list is Substack Recommendations. I want to thank every one of you who feels enthusiastic enough about my Substack to recommend it, and I especially appreciate those of you who go the extra mile to write a blurb!
Remember, a subscription to Margaret Anna Alice Through the Looking Glass makes for an intellectually adventurous gift down the rabbit-hole!
Note: Purchasing any items using Amazon affiliate links included in my content will further support my efforts to unmask tyranny.
